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Byron Shire
August 15, 2022

Mandy Nolan’s Soapbox: Mr Binary and his lack of Trans Empathy

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Scott Morrison is a binary man. He see’s things in black and white. He is in a two party political system. His religion tells him clearly that things are either good or bad. He’s as binary as they come, so it should be no surprise that the only way he can mobilise public support after three years of appalling leadership is to target the trans community. Day one of his election campaign and he backs calls to ban transgender women from playing women’s sport.

Really? What about addressing the sexual culture in his own parliament, where just over a year ago a Liberal staffer was raped on the Defence Minister’s couch? No, something worse has happened; a transwoman just hit a tennis ball.

Has he thought to address climate change and address the dirty donations from big coal and gas? There is billions of dollars of flood damage in our region. There is real and persistent community trauma. Could he address that first as a matter of priority?

Could he fund according to need, not LGA? No. Apparently, a transwoman might enter a swimming carnival.

Well, what about the $1.6 billion paid every year at Nauru to keep refugees in the most appalling conditions imaginable? $2.4 million per person, and some of those men are so mentally unwell they have been self-immolating. The dad and three sons that operate the company are now listed as one of Auustralia’s richest families. They became rich by incarcerating the world’s most vulnerable people. It only costs $12k a year to keep a refugee in the community. WTF? Could he address that as a matter of priority? No. Because transwomen need to get out of ladies’ sport.

Can’t he just leave the trans community alone? Why have they become the focus for the first day of his campaign? It’s clear Morrison intends to ignite a polarising argument to pull across disaffected Libs. It’s an emotional issue and it’s clear some Liberals are prepared to target trans and gender diverse Australians rather than face the political issues of the day. It’s kicking a community who have been seeking the right to live as anyone else in Australia. In fact, sporting organisations have been seeking guidance on how to be more inclusive, not less.

But this will not be an election about inclusivity. It’s clear the PM does not have empathy or support for the trans community. You can tell by his Captain’s pick.

The hand-picked candidate for the Sydney seat of Warringah is Katherine Deves. She is the co-founder of Save Women’s Sport, a group that campaigns for organisations to ban transgender competitors from female sports and promotes the creation of a separate category. In an unlikely coincidence, Tasmanian Liberal Senator, Claire Chandler, introduced a Bill in February called Sex discrimination and Other Legislation Amendment (Save Women’s Sport).

These conversations about exclusion are painful for the trans community. In particular they hurt trans children who are already facing enough complexity in finding their way in what is a pretty binary world. The possibility of taking these bans through to legislation is a threat to the trans community. It tells them they are not included or safe. It tells them they do not belong.

As a woman, and as a feminist who plays sport I have no problem with transgender women competing. It’s sport. Defined as ‘physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment’. It’s entertainment.

And I’ll tell you one thing the non-binary community has done, they’ve improved the quality of our arts and entertainment no end. Imagine if the arts had been left to binary blokes like the PM? Forget Queen or Bowie, we’d all be dancing to a Hillsong band.

And who knows, maybe including trans and gender diverse people in sports will make sports more interesting. Maybe inclusivity will do something to address the toxic sexual culture that exists in sports like the NRL? 

Maybe the PM needs to stop worrying about what transgender women are doing and focus on what he’s doing – which, to me, just looks like finding new ways to hurt vulnerable people.

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  1. Mandy – you can’t have transgender women on the loose & save
    Women’s Sport. ScoMo’s on the telephone line to glory & that’s
    just that. No ifs ‘n buts. The great sunburnt country’s at risk of
    being what people want to be.

  2. Mandy asserts that, “a Liberal staffer was raped on the Defence Minister’s couch.”
    It is alarming to find that our wannabe law maker does not know the difference between “raped” and “allegedly raped.”

    • Vinnie, in that case you need to have a talk with Morrison after he apologised in Parliament on 8th February 2022 to Brittany Higgins-

      “I am sorry. We are sorry. I am sorry to Ms Higgins for the terrible things that took place here,” he said.

      “The place that should have been a place for safety and contribution, turned out to be a nightmare.

      “I am sorry for far more than that. All of those who came before Ms Higgins. And enjoyed the same, but she had the courage to speak, and so here we are.”

  3. Thank F you greens are just a 8% party and for good reason … break your comments down ..
    Correction mandy with agendas .. old mate
    Alleged to have raped that person in parliament
    House has denied all allegations..that’s how it
    The law works in this country he is not guilty
    Until a courts proves otherwise.. dumb greens !
    As for coal donations ? Oh you mean the same donations that Ms Steggall gladly accepted
    From the coal industry.. 100k Hypocrite..
    As for your a feminist.. ? Your a women right ?
    Define what that is ? Or are you to scared that
    The trans movement will howl you down ?
    No biological man is going to play a competitive
    Sport against my daughter who has worked so hard to be competitive against her own sex ..
    Absolutely not .. this should not even be a question
    100% have a unfair advantage.. even the thought
    Of having mens genitals showering in a female
    Bathroom WTF .. incidentally mandy how did
    Your greens Guru’s arrive in the Northern rivers
    It’s a climate emergency did the Greens arrive
    In a plane?

    • Barrow, you must have missed Twitter, your fav info source, that day on 8th February 2022 in Parliament – your man Morrison apologised to Brittany Higgins for her assault. When your man Morrison says it so, then it IS so. “Dumb Greens” and your Morrison are in agreement – OUCH!

      ‘Coal industry donation’, Barrow you need to fact check yourself before you scribble away. You yourself know how dangerous it is for you not fact checking yourself before scribbling away in the very fine pages of the Echo, yeah. Like when you should have fact checked yourself and your Twitter line grab before going at Albo with your scribble on 9th March.
      You are the slow learner …….and we still waiting for your apology to Albo.

      Transphobia, the latest Barrow affliction.
      Barrow, so many problems for you to deal with. It must be crushing for you waking up each day.
      How do you cope with it all?

      • Joachim never ever have i been on twitter!!
        Who would want to evolve themselves in
        a platform that will shut you down for no other reason but they dont agree with you.
        You are a climate change emergency
        Alarmist 100% however i have asked you and mandy how Mr Brandt & Ms Young GREENS
        traveled to the north coast ? You wont answer
        This because they are Hypocrites .. lecture
        Everyone else about one’s carbon footprint
        Yet do the complete opposite themselves
        How good are the Greens.. what a joke..
        As for my comments on the trans movement
        Once socialised with trans & drags in Nimbin
        For years .. had a ball much respect..never once did they ever bring up
        This woke crap .. the mere suggestion that
        You are discriminating because a women
        Defines herself as a adult female women ..
        Never will i tiptoe around my language
        To appease this rubbish.. and my still
        Friends don’t expect me to either .

        • Barrow old son, Twitter us this.
          On 9th March in these very fine pages you tried to take down Anthony Albanese by jumping on a Twitter grab line and video of 30 seconds.
          But Barrow, you didn’t do your basic research of where that twitter grab line and video originated from.
          It was a selected, cherry picked line from a Sydney Doorstop Interview on 31/3/21 that Albanese gave discussing EV’s , Solar, Batteries and more, when he visited Nissan, Liverpool NSW.
          And because you love to play the denial game and worse not bother to correct and apologise for getting it all so wrong, I’ll do you and all the other readers a service and produce the paragraph in full the Albanese comment paragraph from which your Twitter grab line and video came unstuck.

          ALBANESE: What does the future look like? And the future in many ways can be here right now, be very clear, is solar panels on the roof, charging your vehicle for free overnight. That’s what it looks like. And that will make an enormous difference, let alone the convenience that comes from not having to pull into a petrol station and not having to worry about those issues as well.

          See Barrow, “charging your vehicle for free overnight” was the smartarse selective, cherry picked Twitter grab line that you happily ran with and made yourself look like a proper goose.

          On your Transphobia affliction you can dial up Katherine Deves for support.
          Katherine Deves is the Liberal candidate for the seat of Warringah and wants to save Trans kids from being “surgically mutilated and sterilised.”
          You can both have heart to heart talks each night to help you sleep.

  4. For once I agree with Mandy!
    If ScoMo would just let Men dominate Women’s sport, the ladies could get back to raising their children.
    He should give them homeschooling grants.

    Seriously though, it’s like watching the movie Animal Farm. They think they are slaves and by the time their ideology plays out, they end up as actual slaves in really bad conditions. Great movie.
    The Marxism you think freed you was always going to come back around and stomp on you, and it’s just getting started.
    Watch out gay guys and black folk, the next round of insanity will be coming for you.

    • Perhaps try reading “Animal Farm” rather than watching the movie. Knowing something of the life of George Orwell helps as well. There is no doubt Blair’s writings indicate his bitter disillusionment with the perversions of Marxist theory that played out under Stalin. Whether you can deduce that he was abandoning all hope of achieving a fairer society by reorganisation of the status quos a different issue.

      There will no doubt always be the less desirable aspects of human nature at play and psychopathy won’t be eliminated but I don’t know that unfetted capitalism is the answer either. And I suspect Orwell would agree.

      • All good, I watched the movie of his life story ;P
        Like the soliloquy at the end.

        I’m as anti-capitalism as I am anti-communism. Both were concepts out of Chaim Hirschel Mordechai’s books feed to him by Moses Hess.
        Not too keen on the Mercantilism that was the actually problem in his time.

        The Cultural Marxist’s demoralisation of the west will not lead to a socialist utopia. We will end up in Neo-Feudalism controlled by Universal Basic Income and a Chinese style Social Credit system.
        First things first, got to confuse the young people by making them think objectivity doesn’t exist and that everything is a subject social construct. Convince them black is white and you can have them killed at the next zebra crossing if they are deemed “non-essential”, so to speak.

  5. How is remotely acceptable to allow a candidate to continue to have a column in the region’s only newspaper?
    Maybe The Echo needs another word added: Chamber.

    • Mandy Nolan’s Soapbox column has appeared in The Echo for almost 20 years. Although the personal and the political often meet here, and she’s recently become a political candidate, we wish to assure readers and other candidates that The Echo’s coverage of election issues will remain as comprehensive and fair as it’s ever been, outside this column, which, as always, contains Mandy’s personal opinions only.

  6. “ … we wish to assure readers and other candidates that The Echo’s coverage of election issues will remain as comprehensive and fair as it’s ever been”.

    Excuse me if I don’t feel completely reassured by this.

  7. A really vexed question you’ve tackled here Mandy and writing: “ As a woman, and as a feminist who plays sport I have no problem with transgender women competing. It’s sport” doesn’t quite cover it all. There has long been debate about who is what gender at Olympic level for example and it’s not all due to a deficiency of wokeness.

    I wouldn’t care either but I have never played at a level where I’d make my living from playing sport. But as a feminist I think there is a rationale behind segregating sport on gender lines that we’ve always accepted as fair and sound and it isn’t negated by how one identifies no matter how sincerely felt that identification is. I realise that gender reassignment therapies reduce the natural sporting competitiveness of males but that doesn’t make the question entirely clear cut either.

    Then some sporting codes will speak of the safety issues involved in contact sports between levels of size and strength though why anyone, male or female, would want to risk the lifelong repercussions of contact sport – including chronic traumatic encephalopathy – is beyond me. Perhaps the solution is banning contact sports!

    I’m actually out of solutions on this one but I don’t think it’s a non issue. Toilets and change rooms aren’t the stumbling block though.

    • Way to walk that “TURF line” there.
      If I identify as the Emperor of Australia do I get to rule the country?
      At least the concept of “Ruler” is actually a social construct.

  8. Just watching live your Guru Mandy !!
    National Press Club … what a muppet ..
    Asked by the one and only not left base
    Media outlet.. what are you going to do about
    Those that are in the Gas & iron ore industries
    That are feeling anxious regarding job security .
    This bloke is in a dream land wants a transition
    To Renewable energies .. the Greens are clueless
    You eliminate Coal & Gas and the party for compassion and empathy will have NO money
    To provide welfare to anyone .. a complete
    socialist dreamer .. the only policy i agree with
    Is Dental for Adults added to Medicare..
    Cant do that without the resources industries
    Mr Brandt .. and in the background sat Ms Tingle
    Frothing from the mouth in her total element
    No hard questions for the Brandt .. total assassination of the Coalition never picked
    Brandt up on how all this is going to be paid for ?
    Champagne taste with beer money .. this election
    7% nationwide..

    • Funny – we must have watched different press club broadcasts Barrow. Did you miss the bit about supporting workers in the environmentally and economically obvious transition to alternative energy? The references to the idea that transitioning from fossil fuels doesn’t mean transitioning from mining? The reference to the abundance of resources Australia has that are integral to the technologies of alternative energy sources?

      Selective listening?

      I think the Greens can be a little into ignoring realities at times but I thought he generally did a good measured job. I particularly liked his response of “Google it, mate” to another attempted inane gotcha question. Then the well overdue spray about the counter productiveness of this media obsession. He also gave a much more nuanced response on the question of transgender athletes and proposed LNP wedge/hate distraction tactics.

      The “one and only non left base Media outlet”? Give us a break. You current day LNP apologists would call Robert Menzies a bleeding heart leftie!

      You agree with universal health cover for dental Barrow? You socialist you! Who’s going to pay for it ⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️You clearly don’t remember the “sky’s falling in” outrage from the conservatives when the Whitlam Government introduced Medibank in the 70s.

      • Liz levy a socialist iam not !
        I earn money for a living !
        And give to the less fortunate
        Welfare recipients on average
        About 75k per year just on welfare
        Taxe’s alone, so if thats a socialist
        Well i apologise..

      • Liz levy… incidentally if Morrison was to
        Be asked a hard question , which he is
        On most occasions especially from that
        Bias ABC , what a complete indoctrinated
        Conservative hating pile-on organisation..
        Anyway got of topic .. Brandt Guru today
        Asked a question he took exception to
        Typical Socialist that he is educated as one ..
        Uh just google it mate arrogant as it was !!
        Yet no problem , Ms Tingle sat all quite
        If that had been Morrison ..uh just google it mate .. Tingle & co would have gone into
        Meltdown .. two faced , smirking, double
        Standard Hypocrite.. cant stand her ..

        • That wasn’t arrogant, that was brilliant. In one short sentence he summed up everything that is wrong with the silly games the media plays and made the journo look deservedly silly. It’s the best thing (for all sides) that’s been done for intelligent debate in a long time.

          Who do these journalists think they are? Certainly not interrogators of meaningful policy.

      • Liz, 100%.
        I love this ‘socialist’ dig business from our Barrow.
        He’ll take all the services but complains about how it all paid for.
        At the moment services are being paid for by $debt but no complaints from our Barrow, Liberal Debt all good BUT Labor debt is end of days.
        The Morrison Government has re-written the ‘socialist’ rule – ‘the highest taxing, highest spending, highest deficit government in our history’, how do the Lib/Nats cope and live with themselves that they can’t pin that charge on ALP.

  9. Banning contact sports Liz levy ?
    For what reason ? Because of this very straight forward issue, have your own competitions
    For transgender people’s its the only way ..

    • Interesting that this is the bit you thought worthy of comment Barrow. Was it an “ah ha!” moment? I thought you might have gathered that that was a little tongue in cheek. Who would dare to suggest such blasphemy in this country? And it’s their choice after all.

      I’ve seen up close though the lifelong consequences of the punishment the body suffers during an inevitably short lived time of fun and glory.

      Thus my expressed misgivings about contact sport have little to do with the transgender issue. You would have understood this if you bothered, when you read, to engage any faculties for discernment of meaning – or just some simple concentration.

      Did/do you play contact sports? Maybe there’s some explanation there.

      I think any proposals are need to be met with lots of consultation with, and sensitivity for, the athletes to whom it’s likely to be a major issue.

    • Barrow. Let’s merge all “genders” into a single league.
      Agree and amplify Barrow. Run their ideas to the logical conclusion. Makes the contradictions visible to the sheeple.
      That’s why ScoMo was ordered to back it off a little. These mistakes are making the peasants start the figure stuff out.

      • Chris this stupid woke nonsense has gone far
        Enough.. countries top health bureaucrats
        Asked to define what a man or a woman is
        Did not could not answer why ? As not to
        Offend the trans movement.. biden’s pick for the high court .. selected due to her gender a “women”
        and a black African women ticked all the
        box’s yet when asked to define what a women is ? Iam not a biologist therefore i cannot.. a biologist was asked the same question.. same answer.. Disneyland has stopped introductions for visitors..it was welcome ladies and gentlemen..not anymore
        Now its welcome all .. kids being indoctrinated about trans ideologies in schools .. and you know what happens if a feminist or a woman identifies as a adult
        Female women.. absolutely hosed down ..
        Mates identifies as he / him lady friends
        Identify as she / her .. WTF chris .. it will only
        Spiral out of control if it is not stopped ..
        The Greens are a lost cause and support
        This obsession with gender neutral garbage .
        Never will i tiptoe around this ..!!

  10. Barrow . . . You have been travelling around & around the mulberry bush
    to the point where I nodded off. Coalition’s assassination! Good God &
    rained upon women. Have the last say. In the middle & each end. Anyway,
    I agree with Mandy. Night night.

  11. Barrow and Sparkles, you are wasting your time in trying to change the ways of the Echo. It has been hijacked completely and does in no way offer a balanced approach to opinion. Mandy is a muppet and God help us if she gets into power, I have stop posting as you are against a whole raft of people that don’t listen, have no critical thinking, and take any comment as a threat

    • Chris Hill .. greens 7% maximum this election
      Campaign.. for good reason .. !! Dos anyone
      Think that the general layperson would vote
      For the Greens racial policies Chris .. Mr Brandt
      Has no idea .. eliminate Coal and gas industries
      Who will pay for your dental proposal or welfare
      Mr Brandt ? Dreamer ..

  12. Mandy displays breathtaking levels of incompetence at the art of politics, and Justine Elliot must be so pleased to read this political attempt at comedy.

    Fancy going so hard to trample the rights of half the electorate – real women (yep, “real” – the distinction made by Catherine McGregor on national tv) – to try to appease the tiny minority that want to be able to continue to undermine their rights. In a pitch to voters in an election campaign!

    You’d think she must have been mislead by an idiot leader of the fake Greens party saying something just as ridiculous at a press club launch – like that funds for transgender reassignment surgery should be compulsorily acquired from the citizens. Wait…

  13. For heaven’s sake, gender is not a dichotomy but more a continuum. Those who don’t understand this need to read up a little on genetics and endocrinology. Androgyny (being born with the physical characteristics of both sexes) is thought to represent as many as 1.7% of births.

    Gender dysphoria, whatever its origin, is a real thing and causes some individuals a huge amount of angst and suffering in a society that can feel threatened by those who don’t follow accepted trajectories. Unless we have personally experienced the feelings of being in the wrong body I think we should suspend judgement on the choices people make.

    I remember hearing interviewed a person who gained the right to identify as non gender specific. This person had been born male, transitioned to female but hated the differences in the way they were treated as female. This led to the quite reasonable proposition that gender assignment was for them superfluous.

    Surely as a supposedly compassionate and enlightened society of the 21st century we can deal with people’s right to the pursuit of happiness that does not infringe on the rights of others. Instead of thinking in terms of “real women” and “real men” – and their rights – can’t we just think about each of us being real human beings?

    In light of growing enlightenment on issues of rights, psychology and physiology, the issue of gender segregation in sports (previously ignored) is something that needs discussion and parameters – perhaps especially for professional athletes. But it’s just that – not a justification for hate division and bigotry.

  14. Can you imagine playing a game like when you were a kid and you had mixed teams for everything, your there to have fun but not if it’s gender mixed!

    Can you imagine being an adult that pays taxes and votes and yet can’t play a game of sport or watch one on TV without loosing your mind over losing to someone of the opposite sex.

    Can you imagine spending all your time thinking about other people’s genitals and whether thay match with their looks.

    Can you imagine caring about such rediculous things and then in the same breath watch civilians getting killed by bombs in Ukraine on tv and think that your views are still justified.

    • It would surely be the end of civilisation as we know it!

      Let’s not get carried away here Tao, there are many ways in which sport is not a level playing field. I can assure you at just a tad over 5ft, with little natural coordination, sport was never a fun experience for me (until I learnt the joys of individual sports where balance was more important). I’ve never thought to campaign for a separate comp for vertically challenged uncos though. At international level there are athletics events that few white men win. Hardly seems fair to me. Should we do something about this?

      Don’t get me wrong, I still think there is a place for segregated sports but the issue in the context of trans gender is something fairly recent because:
      * we once lived in less enlightened times where people were too ashamed or embarrassed to be openly trans gender and
      * women’s sport traditionally hasn’t been taken particularly seriously anyway.

      But former elite athlete and Olympic medallist, Zali Steggall seems to agree with you about there being more important things to think about right now.

      “[This creates] a diversion to hide the lack of policy around integrity and around pay equity for women by creating this, I think, quite side-lined fight that is divisive.

      “It’s incredibly damaging for many people in the community but it’s also a bit of a dog whistle to the more conservative side of politics at a time where we have such bigger issues, so I support inclusion.

      “International sporting bodies, national federations, they have rules in place to deal with this.

      “It is just not the problem that they are making it out to be.”

      I agree – it can be resolved. No need to spend the day pondering genitals!

  15. Love transgender people, but the reality is – a man who transitions to a woman is still a man and should not be allowed to compete with women as it gives them a huge physical advantage. End of story.

    God help us if Mandy transitions from comedian to politician – the last thing we need now is an overwoke comedian attempting to shape policies. Makes Morrison look great.

    • Essam, gender dysphoria emerges at a very early age; people now often commence transition in childhood and take puberty blockers. Isn’t it difficult enough for these kids to just adjust to their life choices, fit in and feel accepted without banning them from participation in sport – an integral part of our cultural life?

      What do we do about intersex athletes who are not transitioning at all but have high testosterone levels and appear much advantaged? Much to Barrow’s chagrin it is not as easy in every case to determine gender absolutely.

      We need to keep a perspective on all this – I don’t think there will be a rush of men changing sex to excel at sport and as Zeggall states: “ International sporting bodies, national federations, they have rules in place to deal with this”.

  16. Liz, transgender people could have their own sports events. No matter how you care to view this, a person who is born male has male chromosomes all his life and is a male. This is hugely unfair to the female athletes who have no hope of competing against a male – feminine though he may be – who has the advantage of superior physical strength. It tramples on women’s rights. I note that you rarely (if ever) see a female transitioning to a male attempting to compete against men because they know they wouldn’t stand much of a chance.

    Everyone has the right to choose their way in life. However I believe that children should not be given puberty blocking hormones so early in life – not only for health reasons but because it’s basically child abuse. The brain doesn’t finish
    forming until much later, and the child should be given that time to make sure that transitioning is really what he/she wants. It seems that a lot if this is the silly woke obsession of the parents trying to get on the gender neutralising bandwagon. When it gets to the point that politicians can’t describe what a woman is then we are bordering on absolute woke lunacy.

  17. Essam .. such a balanced point of view
    Although essam Liz levy may not agree
    But hey thats democracy.. “those are my opinions
    If you don’t like those i have others ” and yes this is not about the transition for those young humans
    To whatever they choose to be or become and i certainly do feel for the confusion and anxiety or happiness they may be experiencing.. Liz Levy
    Refuse’s as dos mandy to accept the facts and reality that this movement is at odds with all women this includes FEMINIST and this could not be more evident than out top health bureaucrats
    Not answering a simple question.. please define
    What a women or a man is .. !! That’s only one example of this obsessed views on gender
    Virtue signalling nonsense.. it has infiltrated
    Our governments education systems.. it has to stop

    • Barrow, Barrow – it’s not about a “movement”, or a culture, or a political ideal – it’s about genetics and endocrinology. Do you really think the US Supreme Court judge you referenced, or the medicos, have failed to provide a cut and dried definition because the are intimidated by some sort of woke backlash?

      We can’t help it if you don’t get that but it’s sad indeed – did you not do any Biology at school? It’s not too late to read up.

      Btw do you think you are some sort of Leigh Sales with your penetrating “killer” questions? Indeed you’re not!

    • Barrow, you right again.
      We need Katherine Deves to be Minister for Education, Health, Sport, Gender and anti Trans.
      She’ll sort out all your Transphobia problems in a flash:
      – No more surgical mutilations and sterilisations,
      – No more of those trans sex offenders,
      – Help us all out with this Trans, Holocaust,Nazism thing she bangs on about.
      We desperately need the wise counsel of Katherine Deves in these divisive and insecure times.
      Barrow, can you ask your President ScamMO to bring the Katherine along to his next presser so Australia can get onboard, pushing back against this latest national danger.

      • Joachim yes i will ask Mr Morrison as will the majority of the country.. ! Must remind myself
        Such a bigot and misogynist for going into
        Bat for women’s sports …

        • Barrow, my lady, you got the bigot bit right.
          Sadly it alive and well in Australia, this time it the turn of Trans people to cop it.
          It’s always the same with the Liberals, pick a minority group and go in hard with a kicking to remind them wots wot.

  18. All good essam, but we’ve moved away from trans gender sports participation to a new dangerous area of telling parents what to do. And just like whether you get vaccinated for Covid – or believe it exists, or wear a mask or whatever – it isn’t a culture war. It’s about the science and the data and those involved having all the best available information.

    Have a real think about your statement: “ It seems that a lot if this is the silly woke obsession of the parents trying to get on the gender neutralising bandwagon.” It’s as if you parents might start discussing whether they should start indoctrinating their kid to change gender cause it’s the latest hip, woke thing to have a trans kid!!!

    Do you really think that people parent in these profoundly serious situations on the basis of some sort of whim about what they think is “woke”? Do you really think the medical profession operate on the basis of whims – that there isn’t exhaustive counselling and rigorous filtering criteria?

    Put yourself in the position of these kids and parents: they have a distressed child, they must decide whether the child should be assisted to avoid a process that will cause them potentially huge further distress or allow them to delay life impacting decisions until they are older?

    Who would consent to such a profound decision on a child’s health (including mental health) on a whim? Who should be putting in their two bob’s worth, opportunistic dog whistling politicians? Average punters like you and me? Yeah, nah – count me out.

    Just like the number of males likely to transition to get a sporting advantage, I don’t think there will be too many parents clamouring to their local GP for a bit of social caché.

    Trans males in sports? Who would know – I’m sure it exists but doesn’t cause the same public hysteria.

  19. Guys, the reason you should agree and amplify is because these people can’t change the rules of the universe.
    The further they stray from the path, the lower their chances of survival are.
    God will deal with the weak minded that cut their children’s genitals off. It’s called extinction.

    If it effects your children, then you have made some mistake in raising them.

    It’s when they try to mandate behaviour for us that it crosses a line.

  20. Oh Liz – you’ve given me the best laugh I’ve had in a while! Asking if Barrow had done biology at school! You woke do gooders can’t even tell – or don’t dare say – what a female is!! I would suggest you check out a tad of biology yourself.

    It’s sad that so many are on this gender bending bandwagon. I repeat – it’s child abuse! There is no way a six year old child can decipher whether they are male or female. And all those who support this concept that mutilates children should be ashamed.

    • Some confusion has entered the discussion I admit essam. Not unusual with discourse with barrow as he ranges freely across the minefields.

      Someone can be pretty unambiguously a particular gender at birth and still wish to be another, to transition to another.

      Barrow goes on about a strict legal definition of “woman” “man” that will satisfy every sporting federation and whatever other institution feels they need to delineate. Here we do get more ambiguity and if you think it’s as simple penises, vaginas, mammaries, scrotums, X and Y chromosomes then you haven’t read very widely about the range of manifestations. Nature doesn’t stick strictly to the rule book.

      By all means have a good laugh but then do a bit more study.

  21. I’m truly horrified that participating in this exchange has meant that people – particularly those who may be personally affected – might come to read some of the BS in these contributions. I normally think open ventilation of ideas is healthy but not abuse. Time I withdrew.

  22. No abuse that I can see Liz. Just opinions, which even if they fly in the face of the new anti gender woke ideas, should be freely aired and fruitful discussions should follow. This is the nature of democracy.

    I have personally witnessed how wrong this transitioning with children can go – to the severe detriment of the child – hence I feel rather strongly about the subject.


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