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February 1, 2023

Fake gov and the environment

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The NSW government has announced a new $3 million fund to assist regional communities to have access to trusted news sources covering the stories that matter.

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Sophia Watt was named Lismore City Council’s 2023 Citizen of the Year at an awards ceremony held at the Goonellabah Sports & Aquatic Centre yesterday.

Local MP mute over PM diary secrecy

Local federal Labor MP, Justine Elliot, has declined to comment on why her government are refusing to provide the diary of Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, as a public document. 

Oil spill on M1 near Byron, traffic backed up to Brunswick Heads exit

An accident on the M1 has brought southbound traffic to a standstill from the Brunswick Heads exit at Gulgan Road and Tweed Street.

Bundjalung host Byron Shire Survival Day 

Main Beach Park in Cavanbah – Byron Bay, was the place where both Indigenous and non-Indigenous people gathered yesterday to celebrate the longest-living culture in the world – people who are now living on unceded land.

Editorial – Quick! Tax the wich and tax them, vewy wuffly

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Following the fake federal environment minister’s recent announcement of alleged ‘new environmental laws’, which predictably won’t be in place for at least another 12 months, a few quotes from Bob Brown during a recent interview.

1. The reform package is ‘anything but that’ and it will be ‘business as usual’.

2. The new federal EPA ‘has not made any changes contrary to existing state agreements’ or ‘[brought] regional forest agreements under federal control’.

3. ‘There is no indication the new EPA will have any control on native forest logging and in fact endorsed the forest industry.’

4. ‘We already have enough forest plantation.’ 

5. The environmental watchdog is starved for funds.

6. The government has ‘no climate trigger’ while set to approve an extraordinary number of new coal and gas projects. 

7. ‘There was not one full-time environmental lobbyist in Canberra.’

Labor continues to spout their intelligence yet lock up young people for over a year for trying to protect animals and the environment from lazy, substandard, and draconian policies at the behest of mining industries.

Rod Murray, Ocean Shores

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52 COMMENTS

  1. Rod, I assume from your list of quotes from that persistent nuisance and radical ideolog Bob Brown, you worship the ground on which he walks; in 2009 this uncompromising boofhead and his sidekick Christine Milne voted with the Coalition to scuttle Kevin Rudd’s groundbreaking Carbon Emissions Trading Scheme and set in train a series of events, including the election of Tony Abbott, and an immensely costly war on climate change that would last over a decade. After that nonsensical debacle I seriously doubt that the Labor Party is in any mood to be lectured by that undisciplined rabble the Greens and ideologs like you, on how to implement sensible environmental policy.

    • Well put Keith, the greens are now headed for purity on the voice just like the emissions trading scheme.
      There is an enormous amount of infrastructure to be done before renewables become the dominant energy source unfortunately due to over a decade of waffle. These changes are not going to happen overnight like setting up an epa. I suppose the greens possess a genie.

    • Whoa there Keith, there is a bit more history wrapped up in Kevin 07’s CPRS than you put forward.

      I see that you like to give Bob Brown a bit of a kicking with your, “this uncompromising boofhead”, compliment.
      If you check the record, the Greens were willing to negotiate to improve the CPRS, the CPRS that was roundly panned by environmental groups as being inadequate. It was an uncompromising ALP that wasn’t willing to contemplate any negotiating and instead delivered a ‘take it or leave it’ ultimatum to the Greens, and guess what, the Greens took up that ALP offer and left the CPRS.
      PM Kevin / ALP had the opportunity to call a double dissolution election over the CPRS but they didn’t have the conviction to back their own policy and instead ran away from a Double Dissolution.
      The ALP scuttled its own policy.

      It was your “undisciplined rabble the Greens” that helped deliver the Emissions Trading Scheme ( ETS ) in 2012, during PM Julia’s time .
      The ETS worked exactly as intended during its 2 years of operation, reducing emissions and compensating citizens for the associated price increase upon ETS implimentation.
      Sensible environment policy and helped delivered…. by the Greens!

      You welcome.

      • Yep and destroyed by the coalition leading to 10 years of doing nothing. Joachim don’t you think that is a wonderful achievement by the greens! Seems to me their doing same thing with the voice.

        • Rod, yes, “Its all the Greens fault”, that the ETS was repealed by Abbott / Coalition.
          Let’s see, the voters that enabled the Coalition to repeal the ETS, merrily collected all the benefits of The ETS and then voted against their own self interest in electing Abbott / Coalition to repeal that very ETS and “leading to 10 years of doing nothing.”
          I don’t recall the tax free thresh hold being reset to its pre-ETS level.
          I don’t recall anyone handing back their gained levels of lifted social security payments that came with the ETS.
          I don’t recall anyone complaining that the ETS actually resulted, for the first time, emissions pollution being reduced.
          The ETS was just so bad, that it had to be repealed and the voters made it happen.
          But yes I know, ‘it was all the Greens fault’.
          I know its hard, but try putting the blame where it truly lies – The Coalition and the voters.

          You welcome.

          You welcome.
          tr

      • Lets try and make some sense of your misleading Greens nonsense; the Greens claim they hold the moral high ground for walking away from introducing one of the first prices on carbon pollution in the world, that, at that time would have been acceptable to all sections of the community, and would have established a bench mark for improvement in the future, just because it wasn’t up to the “Greens high standard”, and instead relegate the country to a decade of climate and environmental destruction and inaction under an ultra right-wing Government; and don’t kid yourself it was definitely wedge politics and uncompromising “Saint Bob” and “Saint Christine”, as usual were never going to negotiate, and double dissolution elections are never easy to win; now if that’s a win for the Greens I’d hate to see what loosing looks like.

        Your welcome.

        As for the ETS negotiated by Labor, the Greens and the two independents, Oakeshott and Windsor, it was good policy, the only problem was for Julia Gillard, she was put in an impossible position by the Greens, break an election promise and agree to a carbon tax as a precondition for support, or give Tony Abbott the Govt. broken election promises are electoral poison and this was a gift for Tony Abbott, anyone with an ounce of political nous, (excludes the Greens) could have predicted what was going to happen to a minority Govt, (and the two Independents) at the next election, especially after conservative forces had time to organize and fund a massive campaign; another huge win for the Greens? I think not. Thank God we can all rest easy with the knowledge that the Greens will never form a majority Govt in Australia; and if the Greens think they are eventually going to force the Labor Party into “Coalition” then their even more stupid than I thought

        Again, your welcome

        • Keith, I can feel a bit of anti-Greens sentiment in your writings but please check the record before you write things.
          Clearly Kevin 07’s CPRS was NOT acceptable to all sections of the community as evidenced by the opposition to the CPRS from a host of environmental groups, not just the Greens.
          It was rubbish policy, the Greens said no thanks when presented with the ‘take it or leave it ‘ultimatum by Penny Wong / ALP.
          Tellingly though, the CPRS was very acceptable to the fossil fuel industry.
          Amy MacMahon writing for http://www.floodmedia.org 2/12/2019 – ‘The CPRS Was A Terrible Policy’, summed it up best with, “The CPRS, however, was a terrible policy. It would have locked in subsidies to fossil fuel companies, ineffectual targets and a negligible carbon price. Fundamentally, it was written in accordance with the interests of fossil fuel companies, not people or the climate”.
          Please go and visit floodmedia website and dial up the Amy to read her full article on the CPRS.

          “Saint Bob” was never going to negotiate, the record clearly shows you wrong, so why write that.

          The politics over “carbon tax”, there was NO “carbon tax”, even Peta Credlin, Tony Abbott’s advisor back in the day, has admitted that, it was all a lie – a lie that was perpetuated by the media that had no affection for the ALP and action on climate. It was a get rid of ALP at any cost, even to lie to achieve.

          Perhaps we can have a further discussion after the 2025 election which looks very likely to be a minority ALP government in HoR – thank you Greens, Teals, Independents and continuing minority in Senate, where the business IS actually delivered.

          You welcome.

          • Joachim, you can put as much Greens spin on this as you want, at the end of the day nothing was achieved, when something could have been achieved, I don’t care who was, or was not in favour of the CPRS, I don’t expect the Greens to understand this but politics is about perceptions and it is always the voters who decide, something the responsible political parties do have to worry about. And using Peta Credlin as an example of the carbon tax being a lie is just plain stupid, the Liberal Party clearly didn’t believe her , Tony Abbott clearly didn’t believe her, and most importantly the voters didn’t believe her, the perception was that Julia Gillard clearly lied, and that was all that mattered. And if you think you can predict the outcome of the 2025 election by declaring now that there is going to be a “minority ALP Govt dictated to by the Greens and the Teals”, when present polling is predicting the opposite, you and the Greens are even more politically naive than I thought, good luck with that.

            Your welcome.

  2. Hey boys, the reason the Greens didn’t support the policy in 209 was because it was pissweak and would result in further corporate windfalls, as any 5 min detailed , objective, factual, high school investigation will show.
    At the risk of offending local bogans with another factual quote, Kevin Rudd’s own policy adviser suggested “sending it back to the drawing board’ (Do the research)
    The Greens wanted a more ambitious target that did not give handouts to polluters and with an alliance with the Gillard govt. created the Clean Energy Finance Corporation.
    Another unfortunate fact boys is that both Labor and Liberal support an absurd number of new coal and gas projects resulting no doubt in more corporate windfalls.
    Labors policy was lame in 2009 and now in 2023 with a weak environmental minister things have’nt changed.
    I doubt the greens posses a genie however they do possess a desire and an intention to put the earth first and if that doesn’t interest you can i suggest you find another planet… or ( to quote a good friend of mine) get an attitude adjustment.
    Kind regards

  3. Even local bogans know that “pissweak” is better than nothing or, in this case, worse than nothing which we got as the result of the Greens’ propensity for wedge politics rather than outcomes.

    • Lizard, local bogans know that “pissweak”, that keeps giving those legups to fossil fuel industry, is a whole lot worse than nothing.

      Which political party has climate and energy policy actions that follows the climate science – 75% emissions reduction by 2030, Net Zero emissions by 2035 and NO NEW Fossil Fuel Adventures – if we want to have a chance of keeping our planet as inviting for human habitation as we have known it?
      I can save you the trouble of searching… the Greens .
      Acting on the science isn’t wedge politics.

      You welcome.

      • Which political party never has to worry about actually coming good with their policies? Which political party would likely hastily abandon them if they were ever faced with the political realities of having real power? One need look no further than some of our own local government examples.

        Which political party has actually delivered most of the important social and environmental reforms we’ve seen over the decades? I’ll save you some trouble too – it’s that much maligned Labor.

        As the great Gough said “Only the impotent are pure!”

        • Lizard, have a look at some of the recent big moments and lift the lid on who the prime mower was, I’ll save you the trouble and list a few – the glory of implementation triumphantly claimed by either Lab or LibNat –

          The ETS, thank you Greens.
          The Fed ICAC, thank you Greens.
          The Banking Royal Commission, thank you Greens.
          The Aged and Disability Royal Commission, thank you Greens.
          Climate and Energy – Net Zero 2050, thank you Greens

          Lizard, you welcome.

          Oh, just to inform, it is the ALP that is impotent ALP – 32.6% primary vote 2022 Election to somehow just fall over the line and form government, after the horror thta was Morrison that should have seen ALP romp it in.
          More ALP impotence on the cards come 2025 election, as Greens, Teals, Independents will rise even further to deliver themselves as HoR balance of power.

          • You are kidding aren’t you Joachim to notch all those up to the Greens? I’m not denying they have some worthy policies and values but how many of these did they have a snowball’s of implementing independently.

            The ETS was the one we didn’t get. Do you mean the CPRS.? Yep it worked well for a while, but look what happened for the next ten years? – perfect timing for one A Abbott.

            I agree that Labor should have romped it in with Morrison as the alternative but I’d take from this how precarious is the position of any forces that represent a genuine opposition to the Tories.

            And don’t be naive enough to overlook the fact that many of the Teals are basically Tories but with a better grasp of Science and the sense to know the tide is turning against climate change denialism, both politically and economically.

            Look at the way most of them voted on the Dec ‘22 labor market reforms. The Teals and Orange “independents” are unlikely to bring about a progressive Nirvana you envisage but it’s rather typical of the naivety that can prevail to cling to such faith.

            I wouldn’t get too excited about a 12.2% primary vote and a swing of just 1.8% against said Morrison horror. With swings of 1.9% and 2.1% to One Nation and “others” respectively, it’s not exactly appropriate for the Greens to claim all the fallout of the exodus from the major parties.

            To his credit Adam Bandt is quite the realist and responding accordingly. It would be good to see more of his pragmatism reflected in the rank and file.

  4. Hey Rod, wow! fancy being castigated by the Greens, a party that seems to pride itself in meaningless protests, over demanding and under delivering, a problem with which most of the Greens ideologs have become happily complacent with, I’ll wear the castigation as a badge of honor. The real truth is that the Greens can put forward the most politically toxic policies imaginable, they know that there never going to see the light of day, and if one of the major parties is stupid enough to adopt them and the shit eventually hits the fan and they loose an election over it, the Greens never even pay a political price for being politically naïve and reckless. Like I said we won’t be lectured by the undisciplined Greens, we’ll do deals on our terms and when it’s appropriate, “once bitten twice shy”. And which Party has finally made it to majority Govt again, and by all accounts is doing very well?, and because of your state of confusion, I can assure you it’s definitely not the Greens.

    • ” And which Party has finally made it to majority Govt again, and by all accounts is doing very well?, and because of your state of confusion, I can assure you it’s definitely not the Greens.”, but made it to majority Govt on the back of Greens preferences.

      You welcome.

      • Once again you have put your foot firmly in your mouth, the preference deal works both ways, how many Greens would be elected to lower house seats without LABOR preferences?
        Your welcome (again).

        • Keith, no foot in mouth at all writing about the process that saw the ALP fall over the line to form government but I can feel it must hurt you real bad the fact that Greens preferences helped your ALP. The Greens aren’t so bad after all, are they Keith.
          No ‘spin’, that you write about further up the page, just mentioning facts and facts are something you seem to have trouble accepting with your makings up and anti Greens rantings.

          I read that you in love with the “present polling”. As someone as astute as you should know, opinion polling between elections is just that, an opinion poll at that moment. Best look at the trendline in ‘actually voting’ at elections, where your Labor Party and the Liberal Party keep bleeding votes to other parties.
          The political naivety is someone that thinks that majority government will continue being achieved with fewer and fewer votes. Fact – 2022 election saw a record 31.7% primary vote going to the minor party and independents cohort, which continues the trend of primary votes being cast NOT in favour of Labor and Liberal.

          You very welcome.

          • Again how many lower house seats would the Greens have won without LABOR preferences, I must have missed it in your reply?, you seem somewhat confused so I can give you a hint, it’s a low number below 1.
            Your welcome (again)

          • Whoa there Keith, you’ve missed nothing in my reply.
            What is highlighted, once again, is your difficulty in accepting the fact that those damned Greens helped your ALP fall over the line to form government. It does put you in a wicked situation, your anti-Greens phobia just will not reconcile that the Greens helped your ALP to form government.
            So, what to do in your predicament then, Keith. It’s adopt the defence strategy of distract and divert, so you try to turn the discussion backwards, Greens receiving ALP preferences.
            Oh dear, you do need to try harder, going ‘off piste’, it doesn’t wash or work.

            But hey, I can see you’ve done some election result research about Greens seats and ALP preferences, well done to you and thanks you so much for your astute analysis of affairs.

            And since you have your research file open, and addressing the real issue, please share some more of that astute analysis of yours and tell us how many seats the ALP won WITH Greens preferences.

  5. Lizard, you seem a little confused, so let me help you out.
    Change doesn’t just happen all by itself, change needs advocates that get change done.
    The Greens, amongst others, have been advocates for changes and that advocacy has resulted in big changes happening.
    So you welcome to say, thank you Greens.

    On your line, “The ETS was the one we didn’t get. Do you mean the CPRS.? Yep it worked well for a while, but look what happened for the next ten years? – perfect timing for one A Abbott.”, you’ve got things mixed up.
    The CPRS was the one that didn’t get off the ground, a bad policy that was dumped by ex- PM Kevin / ALP.
    The ETS was the one that got implemented, very good policy, ran for 2 years – 2012 to 2014, worked exactly as intended, so you welcome to say, thank you Greens.
    The fact that the successful ETS was repealed is on ex-PM Abbott / Coalition and their enablers – the general voting public.
    So, pin the blame where it lies instead of trotting out the tired old mantra of, “its all the Greens fault”.

    The Greens lifting their primary vote may not be too exciting for you but the ALP is plenty excited in collecting plenty of preference votes that made a difference helping the ALP to fall over the line to form government. So yeah again, thank you Greens.

    You welcome

    • Joachim, I find this sort of exchange tedious. Political exchange Should not be like vehemently supporting your chosen football team where jibes and blinkers are part of the sport and black and white are the only possibilities.

      Political discussion matters because it’s about policy issues that have big impacts on people’s lives and the planet’s future. Politics is the art of the possible, it’s complex and nuanced. What many Labor supporters find problematic is that, tactically, the Greens appear to view Labor as their real competition, hence greater enemy than the far right. I find Labor less confused about who they see as the real opposition in terms of values and desired outcomes.

      It’s hard to reconcile the Greens’ preference flow with their favourite strategy of making themselves look good by painting Labor as the source of all evil. Given the Australian public’s historical preference for conservatism and the increasingly right leanings of the Coalition, a bit of cooperation might be desirable now and then.

      I’ll refrain from writing “You’re welcome” – a thinly veiled “Up yours!” – because I don’t view the Greens as the enemy.

      • Lizardbreath, lovely to read, “because I don’t view the Greens as the enemy.”
        I can only speak for myself, being a former ALP voter, now Greens voter.
        The ALP finally lost me during PM-Julia’s time where ALP chucked single parents off the Single Parent Payment onto the lower Newstart ( the now Jobseeker / PovertyKeeper ) payment. The straw that broke the camel’s back so to speak.
        For me it was an act of betrayal of The Great Man’s legacy, that momentous reform of his, and the ALP principle of helping ( not punishing ) those in need of help. The Great Man must have rolled over in his grave, what does the ALP stand for anymore when it goes about punishing people that need help the most.
        There was the festering sore that was the continued ignoring of lifting the Newstart ( dole / now Jobseeker ) payment.
        It finally took Scott Morrison / LNP to actually lift the JobSeeker payment, albeit still not high enough to lift above the poverty line. It is an indictment upon an ALP that did nothing and yet see Coalition actually act!
        And still to this day, the ALP will not commit to lifting JobSeeker above the poverty line. No more excuses, waffle, stall, it time to actually do.
        The ALP should be ashamed in kowtowing LNP to locking up Refugees and Asylum Seekers in off shore detention centres. We / Australia are signatory to UN Conventions on Refugees and Asylum Seekers, it is not and never has been illegal to seek Asylum. Innocent people being locked up is against basic human rights. Human Rights, a theme that the ALP and LNP love to make a big deal of on the international stage, when it suits, in lecturing other countries on their perceived cruelty and misdeeds.
        On climate and energy, until ALP follows the science, then they aren’t fair dinkum in addressing the Climate Emergency. The opening up of new coal mines, expanding existing coal mines, drilling Big New Methane Bombs around the country , it is all quite a farce when the ALP tries to champion their climate credentials.
        I’ll never vote LNP but I want a whole lot better than a Liberal-lite ALP, the Greens offer that to me, that’s why I changed voting from ALP to Greens.

        • Good for you Joachim. Fortunately for us we can choose. But this is just more of the same.

          I’m sure the ALP government would like to raise Jobseeker, totally overhaul aged care, give the NDIS all the funding it needs, raise the Medicare rebates and give more to state and tertiary education, build more family violence shelters, build more social housing etc etc and on and on and …

          The reality is they have inherited the toxic mixture of pandemic created debt, a European war and a population that has been taught to expect that everything can be fully funded while, at the same time, not a soul will be worse off. They have three years to both make some progress and retain enough support to keep going (cause these issues will take more than three years to fix)

          And just wait for the feeding frenzy if they reneg on the tax cuts.

          And please stop perpetuating the story that Julia Gillard kaiboshed the Single Parents Payment. The Howard Government had already lowered the age of the youngest child for whom a parent could receive SPP. It was “grandfathered” however, meaning those already above the threshold could remain on the old rules. The Gillard Government took away the grandfathering rule to put everyone on an even footing.

          While I’ll admit there were some inevitable individual disincentives to self help (no set of rules can work perfectly), it was one of the few Howard Government changes I could see sense in. A system that gave a single parent (usually a woman) ANY incentive to delay planning for a return to work is a dreadful poverty trap. The prevailing employment market was not kind to anyone attempting to re-enter after 16 years of no work experience and no study. The MOST disadvantaged tended to be the ones who got the biggest shock.

          There is also the little issue of most children actually having two parents and a need to insist both make a contribution to their future.

          The obvious answer is actually a liveable unemployment benefit and better access to child care. The latter ✅, the former – watch this space. I’d suggest that undermining Labor at every opportunity is effectively working to return the LNP and wont precipitate a better social welfare system. Nor will or relying on a handful of traditionally Tory independents.

          Similarly, transitioning away from fossil fuels would be much further on track without ten years of weathervane Tony, coal wielding Morrison or corks for cattle’s bums Barnaby. Following the science back then would have been a great help. Meantime there is keeping the lights on and keeping some people in jobs – so we’re not all thrown on the inadequate jobseeker.

          There is also playing it a bit smart – if you can resist the temptation to wear a halo. There is some sense in dodging the climate wars while realising the market will also do its thing. Things can get approval while, simultaneously, there is little appetite for investment in yesterday’s energy sources.

          We are also working with way more credibility on the real game changer – international cooperation.

          We are also seeing a much more compassionate approach to asylum seekers.

          I just find the naivety breathtaking. It’s easy to rant smugly about how dreadful everything is (and let’s face it there’s endless material). It’s much harder to balance all the conflicting priorities and work on a realistic and achievable plan to achieve something significant on them all.

          That’s the REAL challenge and it’s not aided by being thrown out after three years (like the great man 😢) with the assistance of those who are supposed to share some similar vision but who prefer to view politics as some some sort of “Nah, nah, we’re better than you” self satisfying game.

          • Lizardbreath, “And please stop perpetuating the story that Julia Gillard kaiboshed the Single Parents Payment. The Howard Government had already lowered the age of the youngest child for whom a parent could receive SPP.”, taking the lead from Howard in making people worse off is in my mind indefensible. The fact was that PM Julia’s action did make people worse off, a cohort of people that supposedly are in Labor DNA, to be helped, not punished – some 60,000 SPP recipientse chucked onto lower Newstart payment. It was not PM Julia’s finest moment

    • You are not getting off the hook by using that sort of deflective answer that easily, it’s quite obvious that you are embarrassed by the Greens reliance on ALP preferences in order to win lower house seats and don’t want to answer. It was you who initially tried to use preferences to bolster your faltering argument not me, you would have read the advice I gave your Greens mate about people in glass houses throwing stones, you should think before making stupid comments. And as for me researching how many ALP MP’s have been elected on Greens preferences, you realize that I have to research 77 lower house seats, you only have 4. As for your continuing petty claim that the Labor Govt “only fell over the line”, I’ll take that any day because we are actually governing( something the Greens can only dream of) and making one hell of a difference after a decade of the worst Govt in Australia’s history.

      • Whoa Keith, I see we’ve hit that raw nerve of yours again, that very painful ‘Greens nerve’.
        Its great that the Coalition are gone from governing and good on with your crowing long and loud about your ALP majority government but woe betide should anyone draw your attention to Greens preferences getting your ALP over the line.
        What’s this now, you cutting and running from telling us how many ALP seats were won with Greens preferences, why would anyone be surprised. That raw ‘Greens nerve’ would be too painful for you seeing the outcome of your research.
        Governing happens with ‘majority’ on the floor of HoR, so tick ALP on achieving.
        Legislating actually happens across both HoR and Senate and as your astute election result analysis will tell you, your ALP is in ‘minority’ in the Senate. Dare we point out to you that at the moment your ALP will need those damned Greens to legislate some of their agenda.
        I know it all a step too far for you, to acknowledge the Greens helping your ALP make a difference, after you correctly write, “after a decade of the worst Govt in Australia’s history”.

        • Joachim, try as you may to deflect the argument back onto me, again it’s not going to work, you are not going to get out of it that easily, it’s becoming very obvious that you cannot bring yourself under any circumstances to admit that the Greens would not hold a single lower house seat if not for LABOR preferences. I suppose it’s understandable after your constant juvenile slagging off at the Labor Party for any reason, to admit to Greens supporters who are silly enough to listen to your ravings, that in fact if it wasn’t FOR Labor preferences that there wouldn’t be any Greens in the lower houses of any Parliament. See the problem for you is you should be more careful when making stupid statements regarding Labor and Greens preference deals- (they have been happening very successfully for many years)- when the Greens owe so much to Labor, someone always catches you out, remember what I said about people in glass houses throwing stones.

          • The only deflection has come from you Keith, The King of Deflection, with your anti-Greens phobia you couldn’t stay on topic.
            As for “..slagging off at the Labor Party..”, I’ve presented facts with my writing. If reading uncomfortable facts about your Labor Party causes you great pain, then that is your burden to deal with.

  6. Good on you Keith, a system based on perception rather than sincerity. The product and cause of endless human violence. So long as the pies are hot, the beer is cold and the footy is on, no worries …WTF

    • It is what it is Rod, that’s why astute political parties get elected, they deal in reality, something the Greens struggle with, their mediocre gains have only come because the smarter ones probably realize that they are never going to get elected to any majority Govt. anywhere, and need Labor in Govt to even stay relevant.

      Your are also welcome.

    • I don’t know just what planet you are living on Rod, but it’s highly unlikely it’s this one, you seem to be something of a worry; in the real world the vast majority of Australians don’t engage in “human violence” and they do go to and watch the footy and eat hot pies and drink cold beer and definitely would not vote for the ratbag Greens under any circumstances, no worries … WTF

  7. Keith, in a more intelligent, better world, weak policies like Labor and the coalition would be laughed at. Keith, you won’t acknowledge the facts for some reason. Labour appears more concerned with keeping their job than implementing strong, intelligent, compassionate science based policies. This is called fooling the public with perception. Think Stalin, Hitler, Putin, the fake Iraq war.. Weak policies lead to animal and plant extinction and ultimately an uninhabitable planet. Endless human violence is evidenced by live animal exports and battery farming and dumb governments filling the oceans with nuclear machines and weaponry which can only lead to disaster. Your old parties and strategising are irrelevant if there’s any hope for the planet. Your endless raves Keith are fricking nonsense.

    • Rod, the only place that “more intelligent” world exists is inside your delusional mind, your purist ideals almost bring me to tears. You seem to be getting rather rattled trying to justify your nonsense, but you bring it all on yourself, if you think you can just denigrate the Labor Party at will and no-one is going to return fire your sadly mistaken, I can keep this up as long as you want. I have had a lot of dealings with the Greens over many years, and unlike you and your mate Joachim, most of them are well aware of the importance of the preference deal the Greens and Labor usually agree on, maybe you two should ring Adam Bandt and ask him how many Greens would hold lower house seats in Parliaments all over Australia without LABOR preferences, because Joachim doesn’t seem to know. As for your continuous criticism be very careful of what you wish for, the Greens need Labor more than Labor needs the Greens, and remember that old proverb “people in glass houses should not throw stones”.

      You are both welcome.

      • Joachim if there were a prize for ducking and weaving and getting out of admitting something you would surely win it, you would put most politicians out of a job; anyone even with limited knowledge of politics would know that all four Greens members of the HOR. Would know that they are there because of LABOR preferences, the Greens would know it and most of all those four Greens MP’s would certainly know it. You are just trying to run the old Greens line of when caught out and something turns to shit just blame the Labor Party and move on, well it still isn’t working and nor is it going to.

        • Keith, your ducking and weaving from the issue, “majority ALP government” WITH Greens ( whom you have a phobia about ) preferences, is still not working.

          • Joachim, dreaming and ducking will get you nowhere, but the truth will set you free, while your working on that We will get on with what really matters, like governing the country and transitioning to to a renewable future that hopefully won’t send the country broke.

  8. Unfortunately Rod we’ve got only the world we’ve got. And again unfortunately, not everyone agrees on what makes for the best policies and some very powerful people stand to lose from the policies you’d like to see – those “strong, intelligent, compassionate science based policies”.

    You observe that “Labour appears more concerned with keeping their job than implementing” these policies but therein lies the rub. Without keeping their job they can do zilch to implement anything. These are the harsh realities that no amount of sanctimonious chest beating will change.

    The obvious thought is that the intelligent, science-based and compassionate don’t have time to bring the world with them. I agree and it would have been better not to have lost ten years.

  9. In a better world, consciousness would evolve along with technology. Then we wouldn’t have political parties spending trillions going to Mars or developing ever more sophisticated military technology while forests burn, wildlife disappears and oceans become acidic and fill with plastic and radio active waste. Nor would we have morons to dispute it. Fascinating.

    • Rod you are bringing us all to tears, BO HO, go glue your self to Johnson St. now that will certainly get a reaction and fix the problem, good luck.

    • There’s no doubt there is lots to be depressed about Rod and it’s no fun to think we are part of a species that has become a teeming pestilence on the Earth. Just foot stamping and unrealistic expectations about human nature (NATURAL selection ensures we are all innately self interested) don’t work and giving way to despair is giving up.

      And it’s not very grown up to call people morons and think that strengthens your position.

    • Rod, you really need to get real, if you think you can freely badmouth Tanya Plibersek one of the most popular and respected left leaning female politicians in the country who is presently conducting one of the widest ranging reviews of Australia’s environmental policies in history and not be whacked over the head for being stupid, you are definitely not of this world. How about you consult that dictionary and look up the word “R E A L I T Y” and apply that definition to your present circumstance,

    • That will not be a problem for me Rod, at least we’re in the R E A L world making positive changes, have a nice life on that other planet.

    • Good on you Rod, keep making sure that nothing happens: “ The Greens are threatening to block the government’s signature climate reform” (SMH 12/01)

      Failing that, keep making sure the LNP get back and stay back. That will make you feel superior.

  10. Wow Keith , With your level of self delusion you could be an internet sensation. With no shortage of apathetic climate deniers you could have an audience of millions and a real love fest going on. Knock yourself out.

    • Oh dear Rod, I can see that you are struggling, the more you blab on the more it’s becoming obvious that you have no idea of what you are talking about least of all about me, but keep going I’m up for it and having a ton of fun.

  11. Here stated below we have a party called the “Greens” dependant on, of all parties, the Liberals to hold seats in the Victorian lower house.

    “The party significantly benefited from the Liberal Party’s decision to direct preferences to them above Labor on their how-to-vote cards, which made the difference in formerly safe Labor seats. This will ultimately have the effect of pushing the Victorian parliament to the left. Animal Justice Party and Victorian Socialists preferences were also flowing to the Greens.” (‘The Age’ November 26, 2022.)

    What a mob of hypocrites . The Greens make a lot of noise but then so does an empty kettle. A party of radical disrupters who moan and groan never satisfied and who will never hold office. The Nationals know how to get rid of this blight, vote Labor.

    Alan Veacock

    • Alan the word hypocrites is a huge understatement, the Greens would not hold ANY lower house seats in any parliament in Australia without preferences, they are now not only beholding to the Labor Party, now they are beholding to the Liberals to give them a platform for their usual grandstanding.

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