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Byron Shire
April 24, 2024

Questions for the candidates for Page

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The Federal Division of Page.

The Echo asked the candidates for the seat of Page the same five questions – we gave them a week to respond with a reminder on days four and seven.

Of note is the accessibility to candidates – it was not easy to find the contact details for some people running for the seat of Page.

All candidates responded and those responses have been published in the order that they were received.

 

1. How long have you lived on the Northern Rivers and why are you running? 

 

Donna Pike.

Donna Pike
– Pauline Hanson’s One Nation
Most of my life – I went to Kyogle high school and worked and lived in Lismore, Coraki and Iluka. I have family in Casino, Woodburn, Coraki and Ballina.

I am running because we are in dire need of a change of government. This Government is not working in the best interest of the people. These politicians have totally forgotten that they are public servants. Worse still, at lot of politicians are linked to agenda’s eg: graduates of Klaus Schwab’s young global leaders program, such as Trudeau, Jacinda Ardern and many others.

Hanabeth Luke. Photo Tree Faerie.

Hanabeth Luke
– Independent
I’ve lived in the Northern Rivers for 26 years, having moved to Byron Bay as a child. I’m standing as the Independent candidate for Page because I believe our politics badly needs more science, integrity and better connection with the issues we face in our region. This includes affordable housing, support for our local industries and addressing climate disruption. 

I decided to run because we just can’t afford three more years of throwing taxpayer funds at fossil fuels while homes and livelihoods are destroyed by drought, fire and flood. We need change at the highest level and we need it now. I’m doing this for my children and future generations.

Thomas Searles.

Thomas Searles
– Liberal Democratic Party
I was born in Tullymorgan and grew up around Maclean and Iluka. I’ve worked in Lismore, Ballina, Maclean and Grafton and am still the president or director of multiple local not for profits, community groups and representative bodies.

Heather Smith.

Heather Smith
– Australian Federation Party
My mother is a Cudgen girl who moved away in her early 20s. We returned to area in 2017 and settled between Kyogle and Woodenbong. I keep learning little gems about my heritage, the latest of which is that I am the great-niece of WT Robinson, one-time mayor of Grafton. I raise cattle on 1,100 acres as well as working part-time for a company that developed a leading-edge app to aid regenerative graziers in their decision making.

I decided to stand as a candidate because I feel that many of the current members of parliament have let the Australian people down too often. They are not careful with our money, they don’t share our values, they don’t behave in a way befitting of the role they have taken up and they don’t listen to their electorate or take a strong stand on behalf of their electorate.

Whether members of the government or members of the opposition the issues are the same. We discourage bullying, harassment and lying in our own home. There is legislation and processes to prevent such things happening in the workplace yet these behaviours are normalised in the highest office in our nation. The final straw however was the devastation wreaked on people’s lives by the botched management of the Covid Pandemic. When I sat as a guest at a support meeting and listened to people describe their pain at being separated from family, denied access to medical assistance, at their wits end over losing their jobs and financial security and grieving over the loss of friends and loved ones who had taken their lives or tried to. When I sat there and listened to law abiding Australians discuss how to protect their family physically and financially from whatever the government might decide to do next.

To understand just how badly our governments have broken trust with their citizens was gut wrenching. It didn’t have to be that way and we cannot let it happen again.

Patrick Deegan, Labor.

Patrick Deegan
– Australia Labor Party (NSW Branch)
I was born, bred, educated and worked in the Richmond Valley, and am the fifth generation of a local family. I have lived in Coraki and Bonalbo, and I’m now living in Casino with my wife Gail, a local business operator, and our four amazing children.

I have been active in the community and currently serve as a councillor on the Richmond Valley Council.

Over the past few years, Northern NSW has dealt with the impacts of floods, drought, bushfires, COVID lockdowns, and now more devastating floods. I have been on the frontline of these challenges through my work as a social welfare professional, and now in my role as a Richmond Valley Councillor.

I have seen our communities once again overcome adversity, rise to the challenge, and rebuild their lives. At the same time, I have been extremely disappointed with the repeated failures of this Federal Government. Whenever we need them, they go Missing in Action. I am not prepared to sit back and let things drift along like they have been.

Our community deserves a better future.

Brett Duroux.

Brett Duroux
Indigenous-Aboriginal Party of Australia
I was born in Sydney and went to school in Grafton. I have lived up here for over 40 years. I am 49.

I am running in this election with the Indigenous party because we need change and the locals of Page are not being heard. I believe we need to be the change we want to see in the world and what better way than by running as an Indigenous candidate for an Indigenous Party that really cares about Indigenous issues.

I want to give my community a clear voice and strong leadership. I want to promote respect for the land and to encourage unity and equality. I’m battling for everyone – black, white and brindle.

This party really wants to unite all Australians regardless of how you identify. I want to bring back connection to the land and each other.

Ian Williamson.

Ian Williamson
– United Australia Party
I moved to the northern rivers with my family in 1999. I have seen a gradual decline in political integrity and it’s time it changes minor parties need to hold the balance to force the two-party preferred system to represent the communities that elected them. In a region that has, on average, two disasters a year, a man of my experience in disaster management would be an asset to the people of this region. I will show genuine empathy in disaster situations as I have real-life experience in managing them. I will also bring practical experience and solutions during disasters to save life and property.

Kashmir Miller. Photo Tree Faerie.

Kasmir Miller
– The Greens NSW
I was born in the Northern Rivers and have lived here my whole life, attending local public schools and Southern Cross University.

I am running for Page with the Greens because I strongly believe in having more young women in government, and I want to take the voice of the community into Parliament and take the power back from the major parties and the fossil fuel industry.

Serge Killingbeck.

Serge Killingbeck
– TNL
I came to the Northern Rivers in the 1980s when dad moved here, buying a commercial fishing licence out of Brunswick Heads, later moving the business to Wardell.

In the early 90s NSW Fisheries refused to help Richmond River fishers manage their fishery. Not happy, I started reading about sustainable resource management. This brought me to investigate marine conservation and climate change.

I’m running because our political system has been captured by money and influence.

Being elected to represent your community should be the pinnacle of community service. Now it’s just a competition about power between the two major parties, who can get it and keep it. With sponsors and patrons watching on, like punters at the mounting yard.

Kevin Hogan.

Kevin Hogan
– National Part of Australia – N.S.W.
Karen and I moved back to the Northern Rivers to raise our three children decades ago.

 

 

 

 


2. What is your political experience? Are you or have you been affiliated with a political party?

 

Donna Pike
I ran this year for local Government and received an overwhelming amount of direct votes, however, I ran ungrouped, self-funded and non-politically aligned, meaning I wasn’t set up like the other, to get any ‘preference votes’ so that is where I lost position. I know of two people who did get into Coffs Council, who didn’t have do any meetings, talk or email responses (and only received 11 and 41 direct votes) and yet got in on preferences.

I am a candidate with One nation who are looking to use a people’s referenda.

Hanabeth Luke
I am Independent, and have no affiliations to any political party, which is why I ask people to preference as they see fit – but number every box folks!

Thomas Searles
Historically, global political corporatism, corruption and malevolent politicians have kept me from any political affiliation. The Liberal Democrats were the first party that I truly felt wanted small government with less power and held definable values of personal freedom, individuality and community strength.

Heather Smith
I have been a disappointed observer of our politics for many years, a resentful voter who deliberately cast informal votes and once handed out how to vote cards for the Country Minded party. Coming into this election I felt politically homeless until I recently discovered the Australian Federation Party. Their vision for democracy in Australia, combined with their six-point pact, gave me hope that we could return to a true people’s government as our Australian Constitution intended.

We just need the voting public to be brave enough to embrace change. We cannot keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different type of government. It really is time to try something different.

I believe this election will be a pivotal moment in Australian history, with so many electorates fielding an array of minor party and independent candidates the foundations are laid to break the two party stranglehold on our lives.

Patrick Deegan
I have been a long-standing member of the Australian Labor Party, and I am a current councillor on the Richmond Valley Council.

Brett Duroux
I have no political experience, and have never been affiliated with another party, but I have always been the type of person that wants to stand up and be counted. I don’t believe in sitting back and whinging, if you can do something yourself, then get up and give it a go.

Ian Williamson
I have never been in politics and only been a member for less than a year with UAP. My political aspirations have developed over the past 3 years to improve resilience in regional NSW. I’ve personally experienced the destruction and loss caused by disasters for over a decade, giving me a passion and drive to help the communities of page.

Kasmir Miller
I have been involved with the Greens for over ten years, becoming a member when I was 12 when I became aware of the threat of climate change. Even when I was a young teenager, I was shocked that our government was not using its power to protect the planet and the future for young people.

Since then, I have been heavily engaged with all levels of politics locally and have been a youth advocate for issues such as raising youth allowance, keeping the Northern Rivers gasfield free and biodiversity protection. This has given me the experience and knowledge to make real progressive change to the broken political system.

Kevin Hogan
I was elected the Federal Member for Page in 2013 as a member of The Nationals.


3. What is your experience outside politics?

 

Donna Pike
Civil Celebrant, JP for over 10 years, secretarial, owner-builder twice, festival organiser, Cert IV in Leadership and Management, Winner of the Coffs Environment Award for ‘recycling’ (I was the first person to think of washing and putting separated waste into separate wheelie-bins, my idea went into the newspaper in 1989 and lead to Coffs Council merging with Port Macquarie and implementing the green-red-yellow bin systems now used all around Australia). I have also petitioned Coffs council in regard to homelessness and recycling issues.

Hanabeth Luke
My first love was killed in the Bali bombing. Walking away from those flames I vowed to make my life count, to follow my heart, work hard, do what I say I will do and persevere through challenges. At 22 years old, I went toe to toe with British PM Tony Blair to try and stop the Iraq war.

This philosophy and determination led me to become a Senior Lecturer in Science & Regenerative Agriculture in Lismore. I’ve been working with farmers for 11 years, and I developed the Lismore poll and Richmond Valley surveys on coal seam gas. My PhD results are on big yellow signs as you drive into Lismore.

Thomas Searles
I am a Registered Surveyor, currently Chairman of the North Coast Group Institute of Surveyors, with a background in spatial data acquisition for disaster modelling. I have travelled widely searching for the ruins of lost civilisations, both academically and as a hobby, and have worked in prison transport, regenerative agriculture and humpback whale research.

Heather Smith
I am fortunate to have a broad perspective having lived in four states and worked in roles ranging from entry-level up to professional. I finished school at Grade 10 but also hold a Bachelor of Applied Science with First Class Honors.  I worked in the boning room at a meatworks but also in Agricultural lending for Rabobank.

I have a good understanding of factors affecting the pastoral and broadacre farming sectors but am a small scale, first-generation farmer myself.  I’ve delivered pizzas and worked underground in the mines. I’m both a tenant and a landlord. An employee and a small business owner. I raise beef cattle and have a strong interest in environmental stewardship, having held multiple roles with Landcare. I prefer to live quietly but have also been active in a number of community groups, taking up secretary and treasurer roles.

Patrick Deegan
I left school at 16 – at a time when there weren’t many local opportunities for young people. I was able to go to TAFE, which was made possible because in those days TAFE was free. I worked in part-time and casual jobs, I was able to secure a traineeship with the local council and eventually go to university, while continuing in casual employment.

Once I finished my degree at SCU I found work, and a professional calling, in the social welfare sector. I have dedicated my working life to assisting the most disadvantaged communities and people across Northern NSW. I now hope to take that mission, and the skills I have learned along the way, into Federal Parliament.

Brett Duroux
I have always been an outspoken leader in my community and I am a proud family man. 

I live at Coutts Crossing with my partner Renee Sales. I have seven sons and three daughters.

I’ve worked at the Grafton Ngerrie Local Aboriginal Land Council and as the Chairperson of Gugiyn Balun Aboriginal Corporation.

I’ve been a stable hand in Grafton, a civil engineering carpenter with the RTA, and done bush regeneration at Envite Environment, and many other jobs.

I teach cultural ways to students at Nymboida.

Ian Williamson
I finished schooling in 2001 and moved out on my own and started working in the trades – building cool rooms, refrigeration, carpentry, concreting and bridge building. I was a sole trader for over 10 years, travelling for work.

In 2008, I joined Fire+Rescue NSW at Grafton Station as a Retained Firefighter. This was my childhood dream, and I worked my way up to the rank of Deputy Captain at Coffs Harbour Station.

To further my career in the field of firefighting also signed up with Forestry Corporation as a seasonal Fire Fighter in 2009. Forestry led to becoming a permanent job in 2014, performed in conjunction with Fire+Rescue NSW, until resigning from both fire agencies in 2020 following the 2019 bush fires.  

I stepped into a Contract Professional role with Transport for NSW (TfNSW) as a Coordinator for the Disaster Recovery following the bushfires and floods. Within the first year I had administered over $100 million to councils for the recovery efforts.

I then moved into a contractor role with TfNSW in the Fixing Country Bridges. Managing the total program to deliver a total funding of $500 million to councils and was open to 92 Local Government Areas to replace timber bridges in poor condition.

Kasmir Miller
This year I will be graduating with a Bachelor of Laws with Honours, where I have focussed on environmental law, human rights, international law and climate policy.

Previous to that I studied Environmental Science, as a science-based approach to climate change is the only logical way forward. Having a solid scientific understanding is important to effectively legislate for the planet.

I have also been involved in the arts sector of the Northern Rivers for 15 years and have studied stage acting professionally.

Growing up in Page, community engagement was very important to me, and I have volunteered with many local groups such as Lock the Gate and Lismore Theatre Company.

Kevin Hogan
Prior to entering politics, I was a teacher in Casino and had worked in finance in Sydney. I also run cattle on our farm. 


4. What are your number three key issues?

 

Donna Pike
Our Freedom, sovereignty and a healthy sustainable planet

Hanabeth Luke
– Affordable housing and fair, livable futures for all
– Climate action and disaster preparedness
– Integrity in politics, which involves a federal integrity commission and restoring funding to independent media, so we hear the whole story.

Thomas Searles
Restore the basic freedoms and rights once thought inalienable to western democracies, such as freedom of bodily autonomy, right to protest and rights of free speech.

Secondly remove the surveillance legislation that grants powers to the AFP to hack individuals phones, send messages impersonating the account holder and use the information against the respondents.

Thirdly incentivise supply chain initiatives to decrease global fragility by increasing local food system connection with local markets.

Heather Smith
Just three key issues is difficult – there are at least six or more. The core tenet of the Australian Federation Party is to return the power of the Australian parliament to the people. Our Six Point Pact is both a promise and a strategy to give Australians a voice and an influence over legislation and policy throughout the three-year term of government, not just on polling day. We are building an app which will allow citizens to provide a constant feedback loop to government.

We desperately need electoral reform, an end to corporate donations, a cap on campaign budgets, an end to career politicians, introduce optional preferential voting just as a start.

Those things alone will shift the course of Australian politics away from party and corporate interests and back to being citizen-centric. I’m both an agriculturalist and environmentalist, there are so many improvements we can make to policy in both areas to make them more effective and to drive innovation and investment in the Northern Rivers. This area has so much untapped potential and for too long the Northern Rivers has been overlooked on both Agricultural and Environmental policy.

The drought, the fires and the floods have proven that our Disaster Preparedness, response and recovery is a basket case. The very nature of disasters means that we don’t have time to phaff around negotiating and posturing. These disasters are not a surprise, this should all be predetermined and have bi-partisan approval at all levels of government so that rollout is a push-button response and single body tasked with delivery. As things stand we are causing more trauma to people as they try to negotiate a nightmare of paperwork and information to access even the most basic level of assistance.

Lastly I come from a working-class poor type of background, through the sheer hard work of my father, things came good in the end. As a result, I’m acutely aware of how important it is to have effective strategies to enable our low-income families to better their situation and to ensure that our most vulnerable members of society can access the support they need. Housing stability, Mental Health support and reform of the Family Law system are three essential components to progress in this area.

Patrick Deegan
First and foremost I will focus on rebuilding our communities and our regional economy after the devastation of this year’s floods. We must also address the chronic shortage of housing in our region, and improve access to vital services such as affordable high-quality aged care, child care and health care.

Brett Duroux
No coal seam gas exploration or mining in the Clarence Valley. We need to protect our water, farmland and towns. Mining that puts our waterways and farmlands at risk needs to stop.

Mental health services up this way are non-existent and we desperately need help in this area. We need Indigenous Head Spaces, to address the suicide and incarceration rate for Indigenous people which are at epidemic proportions. Without our young people, we have no future. But this terrible state of affairs is not only an Indigenous issue, so the more we can do to support our youth, our small businesses, our families, and our elderly, the better. This situation is even direr now with the recent floods and the devastation that has caused in our community.

Housing – No one in Australia should be homeless. We are not a poor country. There is no excuse for not looking after our vulnerable and homeless. Everyone should have decent shelter.

Ian Williamson
– Education, skills and employment – United Australia Party has committed to removing all HECS debt and making all higher education free to reduce the cost of living for all Australians. 

– Finance/economy –  United Australia Party will pay the trillion dollars debt using a 15 per cent iron oar extraction license. This will free up billions in the budget to be able to reduce the cost of living. One example of this surplus spending is, that we are committing to paying pensioners an extra $180 per fortnight to lift them from the poverty line.  

– Regional development and communications – Regional development in communications is essential as the 2022 floods have shown the current communication systems was insufficient at the time we needed them it most. Mobile coverage is always patchy in regional areas but particularly bad due to our hills and ranges this makes it incredibly difficult to provide a reliable network to all areas but this is something I’m passionate about and I will fix it if elected.

Kasmir Miller
1) Climate justice. Our changing climate is the biggest threat we are facing as we are already facing the destruction of climate catastrophes. The major parties are not acting fast enough and are still opening up new coal and gas projects every year. We must commit to transitioning our economy to zero-carbon energy to maintain a safe climate.

2) Affordable housing. Throughout Page, we are experiencing a housing crisis that has only escalated from the floods. The current government has rigged the private housing market with tax breaks for big developed, worsening housing inequality. The Greens will build one million affordable, quality homes to ensure everyone has this basic human right.

3) Fix the cost of living. We need a basic universal income to get people out of poverty and homelessness. We need dental and mental health to be into Medicare and to be accessible for everyone. The cost of education is placing a major strain on students and leaving them with hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of debt. We need to make TAFE and Uni free, and ensure teachers and early childhood educators are paid properly.

Serge Killingbeck
For me, climate change and emissions reduction is the greatest challenge. The opportunity to avoid human-centric climate change has well passed. However, we have a chance to limit the impact if we make significant changes NOW.

Housing policy must be fixed and it is a government issue. We have gone so far down the path that housing is an investment and not the cornerstone of the most basic right to shelter, a warm dry place to sleep, we are lost. It is the government’s job to bring us back, to navigate the reset.

The first task is to bring down the cost of housing, for everyone. However, it must be done equitably. TNL’s housing policy is a plan for that, including the necessary total reset of how economic policy is done.

Kevin Hogan
Lowering the cost of living, recovering from the flood, and creating more local jobs.


5. What key strategies will you pursue to mitigate global warming?

 

Donna Pike
Better use of our earth’s materials and resources, by firstly getting back to producing long-wearing non-throw-away Australian well-made items, (we use to have washing machines that lasted a few generations), now things are from China and break in less than a year (on purpose) and end up in landfill!  Seeking and using better lower emission processes and technologies.

Hanabeth Luke
1) stop subsidising fossil fuels & ensure they pay their fair share

2) no new coal & gas with a sensible phase-out to support a just transition for our workers (as per Zali Steggal’s climate act)

3) substantial funding for nature-based carbon sequestration on private and public lands

Thomas Searles
Although I support a move away from fossil fuel monopolies and towards innovation in the energy sector, I would not support any decrease in baseload power reliability, that is the foundation for quality of life in Australia. There is no system of climate mitigation that can modify the temperature and is not incredibly high risk and beyond the predictive capacity of modern science.

Sulphate cloud seeding and other solar geoengineering projects proposed in IPCC Sixth Assessment Report are all, in my opinion, a continuation of disastrous, reactionary and fear-based scientism.

Heather Smith
The Australian Federation Party is solution-focused, and will work to remove regulatory and other barriers to investment and innovation to reduce not just our Carbon emissions but also our environmental footprint overall.  We want to investigate energy solutions that have been suppressed for over 50 years and open the door to carbon sequestration strategies such as commercial-scale hemp farming and innovations in farming inputs that fast track sequestration of carbon into soil. These are true win-win outcomes, that reduce our carbon emissions but also enhance our agricultural profitability and improve the health of our soils.

Patrick Deegan
I’m proud of Labor’s plans to tackle global warming. Australia can and must take a leadership in reducing the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. Labor’s Powering Australia plan will reduce Australia’s emissions by 43 per cent by 2030 – which will become Australia’s target under the Paris Agreement, keeping us on track for net-zero by 2050.

Features of the plan include:

Making electric vehicles cheaper with an electric car discount and Australia’s first National Electric Vehicle Strategy.

Allocating up to $3 billion from Labor’s National Reconstruction Fund to invest in green metals (steel, alumina and aluminium); clean energy component manufacturing; hydrogen electrolysers and fuel switching; agricultural methane reduction and waste reduction;

Rolling out 85 solar banks around Australia to ensure more households can benefit from rooftop solar; and

Installing 400 community batteries across the country.

These are achievable, practical and substantial measures that will have a significant impact 0n our greenhouse emissions, while transitioning our economy to a carbon-neutral future and supporting new jobs.

Brett Duroux
For tens of thousands of years, Indigenous Australians managed the land. We hunted, gathered food, lit fires and fished in the ocean and rivers. Coming off the land after European settlement caused not only huge cultural and social dislocation and difficulty for Aboriginal Australians, it also proved a disaster for conservation. We propose a return to traditional ways of caring for Country.

Ian Williamson
UAP has no policy on Climate Change. I support doing better by the environment and will continuously strive to improve Australia’s environmental standards. 

Kasmir Miller
The most important step for mitigating climate change is to phase out coal and gas. The Greens will immediately ban new coal and gas infrastructure, while helping out mining workers and communities by creating long-term, sustainable industries that will provide large scale employment.

We will also invest into renewable energy and create a Manufacturing Australia Fund to make Australia a green technology superpower. To pay for this, we will tax the billionaires and take dirty donations out of politics by banning all political donations from the fossil fuel sector.

Serge Killingbeck
I’ve been reading IPCC reports since the ‘90s. The recent change in language in April 2022 was startling. From years of being conciliatory and placatory, a don’t ‘scare the horses’ approach, to being definitive and affirmative, almost ‘bolshy’.

Based on both the IPCC’s latest reporting, and the insurance industry, TNL’s goal of net-zero by 2030 is the right policy setting. TNL has a comprehensive plan to reduce emissions. The strategies engage the four pillars of sustainability to pursue plans for adaptation, mitigation, sequestration and elimination. It is available on our website, there’s a lot to it. 

Climate change will put a wrecking ball through our economy, ecology, communities and agriculture. It’s a fight we cannot afford to lose. Being able to say ‘I told you so’ in 2050 as towns die and people walk off will be the emptiest of victories.

To drive that change we must break the nexus of power between Government and vested interests. A fully independent, retrospective federal ICAC, Integrity Commission, is critical to that. We have an articulated plan for that too.

The recent vehemence and aggression with which the PM has come out against a federal ICAC shows how terrified those in power are that it might finally happen. However, it will require a different power dynamic in Canberra to get it done in time to effectively combat climate change.

Kevin Hogan
Australia must continue to play its part in responding to this global challenge. We have a strong record of meeting and beating our emissions targets. Including our 2020 Kyoto target, and 2030 Paris target. We are also on track to reach net-zero emissions by 2050.

This is getting done through strong investment in new technologies. Australia has the world’s highest uptake of rooftop solar, with one in four homes with rooftop solar panels. Renewables now make up almost one-third of our energy mix.


See what your Richmond candidates are standing for in this election?

Seat of Richmond candidates for 2022 Federal election.


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5 COMMENTS

  1. Who a range of ideas. Are people really going to vote for the uap and one nation candidates : parties with no integrity and the spreaders of falsehoods. Remember Palmer was either absent or asleep last time he was elected and he still hasn’t paid his workers. Hansen is just trying to bump up her parties bank account. Are these two candidates been paid to run?

    • So if you can have “Indigenous-Aboriginal Party of Australia” then why can’t you register “White-European Party of Australia”
      Seems like racism to me. The Aboriginal party should be banned, so they can be fully equally to us.

  2. Question
    What is being done to protect the Clarence River from dam tailings?
    There is comment Devils Creek area is leaking.

  3. Great questions. Fascinating to map where things just don’t quite line up with some candidates. The candidates I’ll be most likely to vote for are the ones with consistency and coherency across these answers. Some are downright self-contradictory – especially One Nation, UAP and Nationals, and to some degree Labor. (Not sure about the Australian Federation one. She told me if she could be categorised in any way it would be as a traditional conservative with a bit more compassion or something like that.) In some answers they seem to be telling us what they think we want to hear, but when you pay close attention to all the answers, there’s a point where they diverge from that to their party line.

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