Rallies were held across the country from noon yesterday for Millions March Against Mandatory Vaccination and Passports.
Around 2,500 gathered at Missingham Park in Ballina to hear speakers before marching to the Ballina police station and then making their way back to the starting point for more speakers.
The volunteer-run group, Millions March Against Mandatory Vaccination and Passports (MMAMV), said that millions of Australians around the nation would gather and march, standing up for their human rights, medical freedom, informed consent, freedom of speech and truth and transparency under the MMAMV banner.
In Sydney, people gathered at Hyde Park for a memorial service for ‘vaccine injured people’ and the families of people lost to vaccine injury.
‘Our rallies are always peaceful, family-friendly and police approved,’ said an MMAMV spokesperson. ‘We welcome anyone who has any interest or concern about any aspect of their family’s health.
‘Equally, we welcome members of the media, and invite everyone to report our rallies accurately, without bias, and to avoid inflammatory and defamatory terms such as “anti-vaxxer”, “conspiracy theorist”, ”extremist”,’ and “dangerous”. We are none of these things. We are normal Australians asking questions, standing for basic human rights, and caring about the needs of our community.’
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Stop given this extremist minority, in a big way, publicity. Do they know discrimination is when you don’t have a choice, so to vax or not is a choice and you face the consequences of that choice eg health professionals already need to be vaccinated for the flu and other diseases before they can work. Come on whinge about mainstream media and what do they read, sky news or Facebook etc. suckers for that red headed. woman’s party and that other manipulator from Queensland who sends all those unwelcome texts( can’t say their names or I’ll spu). Anyway short a few million, always stealing other causes slogans like pro choice and million person march, shows they don’t have a clue but manipulated by conspiracy theorists and the extreme right. Go get vaxxed then you can have your restrictions gone and give the rest a break from your selfish, uninformed behaviour.
Rod, I hope you’ve had your 3rd, 4th and 5th booster – cause the variants are coming.
And Dan what are you doing, treating your worms and lice or hoping it doesn’t exist.
Very hard to think over the Muppet theme song that seems to be playing when reading your comment. However I would like to point out that the 70 plus people who were double vaxed still managed to be locked up in the Aquarius backpackers. Just wondering if you are going to let the 3 billygoats across the bridge?
But only for a shorter time. You do know their chance of ending up in hospital icu is 16 times less than those unvaccinated, so not impressed roll the dice.
So Sydney calls it a memorial for ‘vaccine injured people’. Perhaps they should also have a memorial for ‘Covid injured people’ including deaths. I know which one is the greatest and the greatest risk. It’s quite clear. We all know and acknowledge that there have been deaths from vaccines and certainly, injuries, but they pale in comparison to what Covid will do to a community. Vaccinations carry risk and no-one has attempted to dispute that. But look at the facts, the statistic,s and I know which decision I’ll make, as a 72 y.o. with underlying health conditions. Unvaccinated people are a risk to me and so many others….. wake up!
Rod, you are one of the mass hysteria induced sheep !
Thank God some of us can see the truth !
Which bits exactly Rossco, were hysteria?
Hear, hear Rod. These privileged sods who’ve thrown their lot in with the far right, just because they can’t get a sit down coffee. It’s offensive. It’s become their whole personality, too. I suppose if they’ve all lost their jobs because they’re too thick or cowardly to get a vaccine, then they now have a lot more time in their hands. High time the media, including the echo, gives this fringe group a proportional amount of air time – this story would more aptly fit amongst the local notices than in the front page.
Do you know anybody who has missed out on a sit down coffee? Yet to see any business discriminating except for K-mart, Big W or Best and less.
Actually only take away for youharry.
Get real! Shock horror I have seen unvaccinated people eating in cafes in several different towns along with their vaccinated friends. I don’t discriminate.
Not discrimination, it is a choice they make. If they don’t have a choice, eg race or disability, then that is discrimination.
Whatever you want to call it local businesses cannot afford to turn away their loyal customers and they are not.
With Ballina’s adult population around 95% vaccinated it was a pretty good effort getting out just about every anti vaxxer in the shire into Missingham Park. “Hands off our kids”? Who’s holding them down to vaccinate them – or anyone for that matter?
I really don’t get it. Most restrictions will be over in a couple of weeks. It seems these people want the freedom to go back to a life in lockdown and a swamped health care system – the alternative to a critical mass of the vaccinated.
I think the key statement is you really don’t get it Liz.
The protestors, from all walks of life, are advocates for choice. Like your choice to speak freely and be a critic of anyone who you don’t agree with, you know, your rights they are trying to uphold.
If you find it hard to understand that it is morally and ethically wrong for any Govt to mandate anything upon the people, that has potentially massive impacts to their livelihoods, whilst not mandating same upon themselves, then nobody can help you. The fact that this is a medical experiment, with zero long term safety data, only amplifies the seriousness of the problem with “do as I say, not as I do”.
Imagine if it was mandatory for Govt to reveal your home address when you post to the Echo? You might think that’s is a dangerous overreach or you might be ok with that – your choice.
The protestors (jabbed and non-jabbed) are working together advocating for choice…. not hard for most to get, unless you’re anti-choice.
Oh, and only jabbed passenger on planes…. and now we have Omicron also known as Moronic, a bit like the argument that the jabs work really, really well.
Employers, whether they be state, federal, local government or private industry get to decide the conditions they will impose on employment. Unfortunately that’s the golden rule: he/she who has the gold makes the rules. However given that they are responsible for the health and safety of their employees, and the clients they serve, their decisions re vaccination have justification.
I think also that if the vast majority of a workforce opt for a vaccine mandate their choice holds some weight as well.
The mandates for entry to retail etc settings are a temporary measure until transmission is at a reasonable level – thanks mainly to those whose choice was vaccination. It will be gone by Dec 15 at the latest.
There are many potential things that I would object to governments mandating, including vaccination. However, in a pandemic – no matter how light you want to make of it – these health measures are not amongst them. Meantime I strongly object to these protests suggesting they are acting in the interests of my rights.
The fact that “in Sydney, people gathered at Hyde Park for a memorial service for ‘vaccine injured people’ and the families of people lost to vaccine injury” says a great deal about how much these gatherings are about rights and choice and how much they are about demonising vaccination and undermining health advice.
I don’t know what sort of point you’re attempting to make about Omicron but what something loosely rhymes with, I wouldn’t see as particularly telling – even if it’s terribly clever and droll. But I have to congratulate you Steve – you seem to have taken a big leap from suggesting the vaccines don’t work at all, to perhaps suggesting they don’t work “really really well”. Indeed – not well enough to feel confident amongst the unvaccinated.
He/she who has the gold? Humans are the gold Liz.
Not employers, not big tech or big pharma with endless supply of money/influence and certainly not Governments.
People hold the power and they are starting to use it.
Companies who mandate experimental injections could also face legal and financial consequences should any of their staff suffer from a number of the now known and not so rare, adverse reactions and injuries.
Interesting how legal liability has passed to employers, while pharma have indemnity. Though with no long term safety data on their product (because the injections have never been trialled in humans before) they would want to seek indemnity…. yeh safe & effective but please give us immunity from prosecution…just in case they are not.
Makes perfect sense for $hare holder$. What an awe$ome busine$$ $trategy!
Like most mainstream media, Govt and public health officials, you appear to confuse anyone or anything that highlights vaccine injuries as demonisation. Sure it might make some think twice about getting jabbed a 2nd, 3rd or 8th time for the next Megatron variant (you know there are thousands of corona variants for endless scaremongering), but it’s the truth of the matter. Is that a bad thing? The truth undermining “health” advice?
I guess it is if you are a shareholder or if you are a Health minister who might get embarrassed as more truth emerges.
The jabs are certainly not as safe as they were marketed. And effective? From waiting 3 months between shots, now it’s 3 weeks. Now known that they do not stop transmission and boosters every 6 months, now some are recommending boosters every 3 months.
They are leaky attempts at trying to be a vaccine at best. You do know the CDC in the US changed “their” definition of vaccine to suit. Yep, change the meaning of a word, that will fix it.
You can put lipstick on a pig, and that could make it more attractive and easier to sell…. to some.
I guess plenty are happy to worship the new Pharma order and have regular anti-virus software, sorry, injections whenever the Media/Tech/Govt tell you. Your choice.
Sounds like you don’t know anyone who has had more serious side effects. Lucky you. When it does strike close to home, please be kind. The plight of the jab injured is fraught with non-acceptance and hushed tones from the medical fraternity. They need compassion and support.
Another pro-jab friend of mine just got out of hospital and will now have to take medication for his “new” heart condition for the remainder of his life. Strangely, his treating Dr’s could not provide a cause, but they suggested it’s a simple co-incidence he had his second jab 3 weeks prior. Investigate or perhaps ignore to avoid further jab hesitancy? Must be a dilemma for some.
From prior form, I assumed you would object to anyone objecting to the removal of our rights to object, including yours.
And that’s kinda kooky but cool, the ying and yang of life and lives, what we need to function as an empathetic, diverse community that respects those with completely different opinions.
Keep up with VitD3, lots more data flowing on the correlation of those with high D3 levels and the reduction of serious symptoms and indeed, initial infection. Funny how I’m yet to see this as part of public “Health advice”.
And Liz, I don’t ask any friends about their personal health decisions, and I cuddle all of them equally. Unconditional love is wonderful feeling, to give or receive.
Steve – I’m really tired of going over the same ground but you’re welcome to reply.
We will never find common ground while you believe that the whole pandemic, including the emergence of variants, is just all part of a big scam for the “powerful” to make money while I tend to trust generally in the integrity of the majority of the world’s scientists, universities and research institutes. Rapid mutation and evolution is to be expected in microbes – rather than the explanation being some fanciful flight of science fiction that strains credulity.
We’d all love to have a vaccine that in 1 dose gave us in the 90%+ protection from infection without waning. But the situation is what it is and we have what we have. I find modern science quite awe inspiring in the capacity to come up vaccines in such a short time that give us some defence and time when we have little else and face, with Delta, a situation where, without strict isolation measures, the virus will race through the world’s population and keep mutating in unpredictable directions. Inconvenient truths don’t go away just because we’d prefer to deny them.
Like anyone living in the norther rivers I get more than my fair dose of vitamin D and have never denied the benefits of a good diet, exercise and a healthy social life as integral to a good immune system. I just won’t rely on this alone against a new and changing virus.
Make sure your friends actually want you to cuddle them before you go in for the big smooch. That’s called respecting people’s space and bodily autonomy.
I’d really expect more from you Steve, than this trite ill considered dollop of BS about unconditional love. I think love makes the world go round too but I’m careful of who I get up close and personal with right now in case I pass on something nasty to the next person I’m with. It’s not just all about you.
“ Not employers, not big tech or big pharma with endless supply of money/influence and certainly not Governments.
“People hold the power and they are starting to use it.”
Viva la revolution comrade! I though you Covid deniers saw US (the Covid is real let’s have a social compact of response measures brigade) as in the thrall of a communist dictatorship!
At least there were no Trump supporters evident😂.
I have a theory, a lot of those marchers are actually vaccinated! Ballina post-code is over 90% double vaxed which leaves only 2500 of those eligible unvaccinated, they can’t all have been at the March . Go on you lot own up!
Yes – I agree Jill,
From what we have been hearing the MMAMV group is not about not being vaccinated, it’s about mandatory vaccination.
Many vaccinated people have been marching for the right for vaccinations to not be mandated for some professions.
Eve you do know to become saya nurse or age care you have to be vaccinated for other diseases like hepatitis etc, so what’s the problem except Covid denial promoted by the right wing extremists seeing you as a ripe possible supporter.
In any group there will be a mix of motivations – however I think the information that “ In Sydney, people gathered at Hyde Park for a memorial service for ‘vaccine injured people’ and the families of people lost to vaccine injury” gives some insight into the MMAMV. No mention of time or attention in the memorial service for the more than 5 million people who have lost their lives to Covid 19 or the many millions more whose long-term health has been adversely impacted.
We are living in an extraordinary time. With new more infectious variants appearing we would be cactus without the emergence of these vaccines – evidence from around the world supports this. At the same time the world is dealing with an insidious campaign to undermine public health measures including vaccines.
Many things that people feel they are being excluded from – pubs, restaurants, retail, the jobs these provide – would not be available to any of us for long with a rampant virus. Extraordinary crises lead to the need for some extraordinary measures and this might mean people have to make some hard choices not just the choice to opt out of vaccination.
well said Liz.. .thank you
You are aware of course that globally COVID has a 4% death rate after infection. And that 85% of those are over the age of 60. And you are aware that those are the WHO figures, and that they include all the unvaxed people from before vaccinations were available. So then obviously you are aware that we would not be “cactus”, or don’t you actually care about the real figures. I would suggest you take a look at the Australian Federal Government Dept of Health website, search COVID deaths and infections by age and gender. Then do some basic maths to work out %, you might change your tune.
Hi flabbergasted , I read your post but could not determine your conclusion . What do you imply by changing your tune ? I could not discern whether you were pro or anti . When you mention .. do some basic maths …. Is that to include the concept of exponential growth ?( If left unchecked and ignored … As in the let it rip school of thought ? ) Just asking
I do look at the figures, Flabbergasted – the overwhelming majority of those hospitalised, in Australia, and those bad enough for IC, are unvaccinated. Countries with low vaccination rates are experiencing greater surges than those with good take-up.
What are you suggesting about the WHO’s figures – that the death rate has been reduced since vaccines have been available? That indicates vaccine efficacy surely? It is hard to judge what the death and hospitalisation rates would be without the vaccines coming along because countries with reliable records all have some level of vaccine uptake.
I’d suggest that if you have an increasingly contagious virus that means, as the experts tell us, that people will either get it or get vaccinated – sometimes both – that indeed suggests that without vaccination now we would be in a world of pain.
It really is tedious to keep repeating this stuff but a pandemic is a numbers game. Of those who get infected (potentially 100% without vaccines) a certain percentage will end up in hospital, a certain percentage of those in IC, a significant percentage will experience long-term health problems and a percentage will die. Indications are that vaccines will mitigate against all these unfavourable outcomes.
When serious illness, hospitalisations and IC reach certain levels, the health system of a country collapses and treatment of all health conditions and emergencies is affected. This, and turning ice rinks and refrigeration trucks into morgues is indeed why most countries are forced back into lockdowns.
I’d suggest you take a refresher in the mathematics of exponential growth and you will see that, before our vaccination rates surged, this country was well on its way to cactus.
BTW, many people over 60 still think of themselves as young and of their lives as worth preserving. So do people with underlying health conditions like asthma, or those immuno-compromised, or simply the young and healthy who are inexplicably badly impacted by infection. I don’t know why so many anti vaxxers are happily into eugenics.
How do you explain the fully vaccinated nurse in Victoria who died yesterday? How do you explain the number of cases in Victoria with such a High vaccination rate. Don’t you even question why this is occurring?
How about the far greater number who died unvaccinated? Really weird focusing Harry
M.
Yes HarryM, I do. Do you ever ponder what suddenly happened in Sydney?
???? 10 deaths in Victoria again.
From today’s Age:
“ Thirty-six people who attended the Melbourne “freedom” protests in November have now tested positive for COVID-19, with two admitted to hospital.
“ Of the confirmed cases, only one was fully vaccinated at the time of testing, three had received one dose of the vaccine and 31 were unvaccinated.
“Health authorities are yet to determine the vaccination status of one of the confirmed cases.
“Victoria’s Chief Health Officer, Professor Brett Sutton, said 14 cases had attended the protests while infectious, and were believed to have passed the virus on to 22 others.
“ He urged people with any symptoms of COVID-19,
no matter how mild, to get tested.
“Thousands of people have turned up to large rallies held in Melbourne every Saturday over the past month, with several people camping out on the steps of Parliament House.
“The group has now moved to Government House, the official residence of Victorian Governor Linda Dessau, who will give royal assent to the legislation next week.”
These are the ones who bothered to get tested so may provide some explanation. It’s seems the two admitted to hospital have not declined the state’s medical services when their personal choices in relation to the “scamdemic” turned out to be not so wise.
But undoubtedly they are pleased with their contribution to maintaining their fellow citizens’ rights.
How do you explain the fully vaccinated nurse in Victoria who died yesterday?
Well, that one’s pretty simple Harry M. The nurse was Jill Dempsey and she worked in ICU at Angliss Hospital in Melbourne. Yep she was double vaxxed. That does nt mean that you can’t get Covid as all research shows we need at least THREE doses to get to 95% coverage and immunity. Many people get covid with two doses but nearly 95% of in hospital patients in Australia have no vaccinations at all. So another way of looking at it is that if Jill Dempsey had nt had anyone in her ICU unit with Covid, she would nt have caught it and died. She was 60 yo so her immune response after a few months may have only been 50% of a younger person. The exact information has nt been released but it’s likely most of the ICU patients in her hospital were not vaxxed. So perhaps by CHOOSING to not be vaxxed they have caused the death of Jill Dempsey. If they were vaxxed it’s most likely that they would nt have been in ICU to start with. FACT not OPINION
How do you explain the number of cases in Victoria with such a High vaccination rate.
There were one hundred to two hundred people infectious in the community when the last VIC lockdown began. They were behind the highball from day 1 . That was last July and things got out of control. The lockdown just slowed down the rate of infection but did nt stop it. High vaccination rates are just of people over 16. That means there a lot of younger people 5- 25 yo who are not vaccinated- they spread the disease. You can still catch Covid if you’re double vaxxed. It is just much less serious disease than in unvaxxed patients. Also you don’t give out as many virus particles if you’re double vaxxed, so less virus around us. This all takes time and maybe we will never get to zero cases but exist at a low number. If we could get to all people over 5 yo vaxxed, then we may get somewhere. If you want to help in this fight against the biggest threat to the human race EVER – get vaccinated.
Don’t you even question why this is occurring?
Yep, but we know the answers – from expert Scientists and Researchers, not just someone on the internet or Facebook.
Ok so the point is this, not many people die from Covid, the numbers say this as a percentage of deaths per infections. The numbers which include half of the ‘pandemic’ having NO vaccines. Who said it was an ‘increasingly contagious virus’, there is a more contagious strain, but that’s only 1 strain. What is this ‘significant percentage’ that will experience long-term health problems? I’d love to know the answer to that one, as no ‘long-covid’ figures exist yet. Do you know anyone who’s had covid? I know of four people personally. One ended up in hospital, all recovered quickly and fully. So don’t believe the hype. Yes some people die from covid, but people die from falling over in the shower, crossing the road, malaria, the flu, HIV etc. What about the anti-viral drugs being used in the UK and other countries with great success in keeping people out of hospital. The vaccine mandate is bulls**t. How can you support it? What about herd immunity, originally the health advice was that it would be achieved at 60%. we are over 80%, so wipe out all the bulls**t control tactics and let us get back to normal. If you are vaxed, then why are you worried? If I choose not to be what does it matter to you, as we have herd immunity. I might go to hospital, so what, my choice my risk. Like the smoker with lung cancer, the obese over eater with diabetes, or the drunk who fell over and injured themselves. Open your eyes, ears and mind, its a scam. Someone is getting very rich, and let the three little billygoats pass over the bridge would you.
OK even more flabbergasted – I have spent so much time responding to so much of this stuff I really am tired. However as to “who said it’s an increasingly infectious virus”? Scientists around the world identifying the mutations discernible in the constant genomic monitoring and calculating the reproduction rate of each variant. That is the number of people an infected person is likely to go on to infect which clearly impacts the speed of the spread.
Each variant of concern, identified by the WHO, has had a higher reproduction number – with Omicron being a bit new yet to know.
Variants, not “strains”, if more efficient, tend to overtake the others. You would probably find that all those cases in Victoria at present are Delta. This isn’t high level science, Darwin’s theory of evolution and natural selection is taught in High School biology.
Long Covid is estimated to be from 10-30%, again derived from monitoring and data collation. Given the number of infections this is scary at either end of the scale.
You know four people who have had Covid so that makes you an expert and able to see through all the BS? Congratulations indeed!
So if you get sick you’ll just happily go to hospital and potentially, take up an ICU while you hover for weeks between life and death and prevent a heart patient having surgery because they need that bed for post operative care. Or perhaps you will infect a health care worker, constantly in contact with the unvaccinated hospitalised, and perhaps he/she will die like the nurse in Victoria recently. All just absolutely fine? Your choice? At least the smokers and drinkers pay hefty excises in their purchases.
The numbers in Victoria are constant but the have stopped being exponential. Their hospitalisation rate is also manageable which is a benefit of their high vaccination rate. They also have a spike most Thursday. Anything to do with the weekend’s partying including their more numerous “freedom” marches?
But hey – what’s happened in Sydney where lockdown ended with much lower infection numbers?
It’s all just about getting rich when vaccines are among the cheapest and most efficient disease preventatives? Unlike the antivirals that are expensive to produce and much more costly to the health system.
The handle “flabbergasted” is great – it suggests a genuine questioning and curiosity. Your questions though suggest that you don’t look to very informative sources for your answers. Perhaps look more widely than your present ones for the reasonable explanations that are there before you pronounce “bulls**t”.
Yes Liz, it’s the cherry-picking of small ‘facts’ (like the fully vaxxed nurse who died recently and using that as evidence that vaccination doesn’t work – missing the larger picture of it working for most (but not all) people, and in multiple ways – limiting spread, allowing hospital system to function reasonably normally) and ignoring the whole picture that really wears me down with pandemic-skeptics. Meanwhile in Lismore this week I read that all elective surgery was postponed while staff were in isolation for covid testing after the Aquarius Backpackers situation.
I sympathise with the human rights concerns re’ mandates and surveillance, and as a community we should stay vigilant and questioning about this, but what fails to be acknowledged is yes the seriousness of the pandemic and the difficulty (impossibility) of managing it in a way which covers everyone’s needs/desires. I read a report by the Human Rights Law Centre recently that explained how the new Bill in Victoria was actually mostly more protective of people’s rights than the existing arrangement, but many of these protestors don’t seem open to this kind of informed expert opinion?
Very well said, Sally. Thank you.
Looking at some of the comments it appears that getting vaccinated makes some people mean, self righteous, nasty and intolerant.
Nah – we were probably like that before we got vaccinated!
Actually the mean and self imposition on others comes from these privileged unvaxxed people. Read about death threats, hangman nooses, hate speech, all from these protesters sucked in by conspiracy theorists.
It’s obviously me, but like others I can’t work out what FLABBERGASTED is getting at. Would love to understand what they are trying to communicate.
Are they saying that a 4 % rate of death is okay? As long as the dying are not in your family or someone that’s part of your friendship circle perhaps?
What about health workers in hospitals? What is an acceptable rate for those heroes? They are lumped with caring for those amongst us who are exercising their right to choose not to vaccinate.
I think most reasonable people think the 4% death rate is too high- that’s why we can’t ignore Covid 19.
As FLABBERGASTED says, let’s do the maths. Let’s say there are 25 million people in Australia, eventually, if the disease keeps progressing they will all get infected.
4 % of that is roughly 1 000 000 million people.
So I guess 1 million people dying is okay then? Is that what you are saying FLABBERGASTED?
FLABBERGASTED may be saying that it’s okay if people over 60 die – in a roundabout way. Guess I might let my 80 yo brother know he better be careful as he is expendable. While we are at it what about immune compromised people? Are they expendable too? Is that what you are saying FLABBERGASTED?
What about LONG COVID? Some scientists think it may be 15- 25% of all cases. What rate is acceptable to us? So a million Australians may die with a further 4 to 5 million long Covid cases in a worst case scenario. How does any medical system cope with that ?
And then there is someone who says;
“I think the key statement is you really don’t get it”.
Phew, big call.
Just wondering if there is a chance that person doesn’t get it?
Humans have been fighting off microscopic infections for hundreds of thousands of years. Archaeologists think ancient Egyptians were the first to devise a form of vaccination. Western Science adopted Vaccination in the 1800’s. When I went to Primary School I had two people in my school with Polio. You never see anyone in the developed world with Polio any more – Sabin vaccine. Almost 100 % of Australians have had childhood vaccinations for most major infectious diseases. Vaccination works and it rarely adversely affects us. The data is there and I don t mean on Facebook but data from Scientists and Research Institutions.
Everyone has a choice to vaccinate or not, but with that choice comes consequences. So if you want to be a hospital nurse or a teacher or one of the many occupations that require vaccination, then get vaccinated. If you don t want to do that, no problem, but you can’t do that job anymore for the majorities’ safety. Similarly if you want to go to nightclubs or to concerts or some social venues then get vaccinated. You decide what you want for you.
The government is not forcing anyone to vaccinate- fact not opinion.
North coast NSW has long been the alternative epicentre and I think 2 500 people at a demonstration is a failed demonstration.
This ” movement” is going nowhere and its importance shouldn’t be overstated- just my opinion.
People from all walks of life Vic, coming together to uphold choice – very simple. I hope you get it.
A movement going somewhere for the rights of ALL.
Transmission (do it for others) narrative is invalid and the long term data is er, well it’s emerging and it appears clots, strokes & heart conditions are not as rare as most might think. But yeh, that happens with drug trials, it’s how scientist learn.
Choice – what an amazing concept to comprehend.
It’s really not that straightforward – really. Choices have implications for other people’s choices and rights can conflict. If this totally unnuanced concept of choice and rights is the best reply you can come up with in response to this thoughtful and intelligent commentary it would be best not to bother.
And guess what Steve – clots strokes and heart conditions are frequent outcomes of Covid19 infection – just way more common. Again totally unnuanced.
👍
Yep , i do get it after being on some demonstrations at various points in my life about things that were crucial. Some had 250 000 people ( and more) at them not 2 500 people.
While I don t agree with the current demonstrators I would fight for their right to do so.
Once again choice is not under threat; there are just clear decisions to make for everyone.
Before choices you need education and it is obvious governments and maybe we have failed in overcoming the background trolling and misinformation that has become a part of our information system. The common theme is that people have not been correctly informed of the FACTS – the process has failed.
So ignoring that, everyone must now make their choices..
Choice A or choice B; then live with the consequences.
More than 80 % of people over 15 in Northern NSW have already made their choice.
Yes, in the alternative Capital of Australia – 80 %
Anyone with “long term data of adverse Vaccine reactions” and so on, please share it so we can all be educated.
So far I have not seen anything FACTUAL = based on research done with the normal safeguards; that supports the pro freedom narrative.
Everyone must make their choices based on FACT not Opinion and so far opinion is all I am seeing in arguments from proponents of vaxx hesitant/ pro freedom/ antivaxx/anti 5g/ pro choice/rights for all/anti big pharma, grab bag of causes.
Sorry health workers you have a really unwinnable choice to make. Double vaxx and help people who are probably not vaxxed as they become sick with Covid or don t get vaxxed and leave your profession. You are the HEROES- we can t say it enough.
Will always look at FACTS – love them.